Caso Negreira

[Jay-Jay]

Let me jump in.

Facts:

• Negreira prepared reports for us. Many clubs use this kind of service.
• Those reports should not have cost that much.
• Given that he was part of the refereeing committee, it was not a smart decision for him to be doing this work.
• The referees were not paid with those €7 million, because in that case the amount would have been far too small.

Assumptions:

• We paid that much for the reports in order to gain some influence over referees through Negreira, not necessarily to fix matches.
• It is obvious that we did not receive any real help from him, and the payments may have continued because of blackmail.
• The reports were paid for over such a long period and at such a high cost because we believed they had some effect.
• The reports were used as a way to launder money.

Did I forget anything?

 

[JamDav1982]

What has been shown is he tried to get Barca to continue paying him AFTER he left his role.

It shows how important his role was in all of this that Barca ignored it and stopped payment.

 

[JamDav1982]

Let me jump in.

Facts:

• Negreira prepared reports for us. Many clubs use this kind of service.
• Those reports should not have cost that much.
• Given that he was part of the refereeing committee, it was not a smart decision for him to be doing this work.
• The referees were not paid with those €7 million, because in that case the amount would have been far too small.

Assumptions:

• We paid that much for the reports in order to gain some influence over referees through Negreira, not necessarily to fix matches.
• It is obvious that we did not receive any real help from him, and the payments may have continued because of blackmail.
• The reports were paid for over such a long period and at such a high cost because we believed they had some effect.
• The reports were used as a way to launder money.

Did I forget anything?

Blackmail can be ruled out as the threat of him exposing Barca doesnt vanish when he leaves his role.

Yet Barca stop paying him and ignore him when alludes to exposing the payments.

Clearly whatever they were paying for or believed paying for was linked to his role.

Laundering money doesnt feel likely as would be relatively small amounts for how many would have known about it and what would be at risk for them should it be exposed.

Added to that you would have to assume the next board up just keeps going with it and dont expose previous board when we all know they come in looking to highlight as much wrong doing as can.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Let me jump in.

Facts:

• Negreira prepared reports for us. Many clubs use this kind of service.
• Those reports should not have cost that much.
• Given that he was part of the refereeing committee, it was not a smart decision for him to be doing this work.
• The referees were not paid with those €7 million, because in that case the amount would have been far too small.

Assumptions:

• We paid that much for the reports in order to gain some influence over referees through Negreira, not necessarily to fix matches.
• It is obvious that we did not receive any real help from him, and the payments may have continued because of blackmail.
• The reports were paid for over such a long period and at such a high cost because we believed they had some effect.
• The reports were used as a way to launder money.

Did I forget anything?

There's no evidence that any reports were actually prepared by Negreira Sr. According to him and the club the advice would have been entirely verbal and nobody can account for its existence.

It is notable that the technical staff and coaches in the same period deny having ever received the advice from Negreira, which is where it would go if it was refereeing reports. Instead he went directly to Rosell and Bartomeu and evidently was giving them other forms of services that we don't know.

 

[JamDav1982]

Laporta also.. Laporta paid him for the longest time and increased the payments the most.

He is lucky that period of time has passed he cant be questioned on it to same level.

 

[serghei]

Let me jump in.

Facts:

• Negreira prepared reports for us. Many clubs use this kind of service.
• Those reports should not have cost that much.
• Given that he was part of the refereeing committee, it was not a smart decision for him to be doing this work.
• The referees were not paid with those €7 million, because in that case the amount would have been far too small.

Assumptions:

• We paid that much for the reports in order to gain some influence over referees through Negreira, not necessarily to fix matches.
• It is obvious that we did not receive any real help from him, and the payments may have continued because of blackmail.
• The reports were paid for over such a long period and at such a high cost because we believed they had some effect.
• The reports were used as a way to launder money.

Did I forget anything?

Some combination of an official conning the club into believing you have to pay for influence to get a fair treatment. Something along those lines.

The club paid him, stopped paying him at some point, got blackmailed to resume payments, refused to do it, and case popped out.

Can't prove pretty much anything.

Can't prove who contacted who, no tapes, no money trails, bank accounts, testimonies of refs and other officials who were involved in this supposed scheme, no nothing.

Most likely, we got conned by a criminal because we were idiots and paranoid about Madrid getting favors from the refs, and we suffer the consequences.

 

[JamDav1982]

Wasnt blackmailed or payments wouldnt stop when left role and then reject the attempt to carry on or would be exposed.

 

[JamDav1982]

There's no evidence that any reports were actually prepared by Negreira Sr. According to him and the club the advice would have been entirely verbal and nobody can account for its existence.

It is notable that the technical staff and coaches in the same period deny having ever received the advice from Negreira, which is where it would go if it was refereeing reports. Instead he went directly to Rosell and Bartomeu and evidently was giving them other forms of services that we don't know.

Gerard Lopez came out and said he used the reports.

Feels a bit of a dubious claim though.

Even if there were a thousand reports and more coaches said saw them.. probably still be claimed was just a front anyway.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Gerard Lopez came out and said he used the reports.

Feels a bit of a dubious claim though.

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/en/2...son-and-they-were-extremely-useful-to-me.html "Negreira is a historic mistake for Barca, but to say that referees were bought… I was in the reserve team and I received referee reports from Negreira’s son, which were extremely useful to me"

This was referring to the reports which were made by Negreira Jr, that do exist, some of them are online (some tacky refereeing reports, quite basic), and we were also paying his son for them at the same time as we were paying Negreira Sr. So the son was providing something, but also, very overbilled (I think the amount we paid to the son was 400 thousand total? Whilst he claimed in police interview that the true value of the reports was 20 euros each).

However, the son also distanced himself from his dad and said the 8 million+ had nothing to do with him and he wasn't involved.

That is, the contracts the club made with Negreira Sr and Jr would be separate (though it seems strange). The advice provided by Negreira Sr himself, according to the club, was made verbally.

 

[Jay-Jay]

Blackmail can be ruled out as the threat of him exposing Barca doesnt vanish when he leaves his role.

Yet Barca stop paying him and ignore him when alludes to exposing the payments.

Clearly whatever they were paying for or believed paying for was linked to his role.

Laundering money doesnt feel likely as would be relatively small amounts for how many would have known about it and what would be at risk for them should it be exposed.

Added to that you would have to assume the next board up just keeps going with it and dont expose previous board when we all know they come in looking to highlight as much wrong doing as can.

The blackmail may have lasted for a period of time, but at some point it stopped because of something.

A lot of people would know that we were paying too much for reports, which doesn’t mean many people would have to be involved in distributing the money.

No other board or anyone else can prove that the payments were made for money laundering. Even though it may seem obvious, they can simply play dumb and say we paid whatever he asked for. You can say that’s stupid, but there are plenty of even more absurd things around this whole situation.

There's no evidence that any reports were actually prepared by Negreira Sr. According to him and the club the advice would have been entirely verbal and nobody can account for its existence.

It is notable that the technical staff and coaches in the same period deny having ever received the advice from Negreira, which is where it would go if it was refereeing reports. Instead he went directly to Rosell and Bartomeu and evidently was giving them other forms of services that we don't know.

Isn’t it the case that the reports did exist but were not given to the coaches? It could be said that the reports were made for referee analysis, influencing officiating, looking at who gives how many cards, how fairly they referee, etc., possibly for discussions, complaints, lawsuits… I’m not saying that necessarily makes sense.

 

[JamDav1982]

Blackmail doesnt just happen to stop when he leaves his role.

'Reasons' is no argument.

It is too little money for it to be laundering and what those involved would stand to lose if exposed in my opinion.

 

[JamDav1982]

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/en/2...son-and-they-were-extremely-useful-to-me.html "Negreira is a historic mistake for Barca, but to say that referees were bought… I was in the reserve team and I received referee reports from Negreira’s son, which were extremely useful to me"

This was referring to the reports which were made by Negreira Jr, that do exist, some of them are online (some tacky refereeing reports, quite basic), and we were also paying his son for them at the same time as we were paying Negreira Sr. So the son was providing something, but also, very overbilled (I think the amount we paid to the son was 400 thousand total? Whilst he claimed in police interview that the true value of the reports was 20 euros each).

However, the son also distanced himself from his dad and said the 8 million+ had nothing to do with him and he wasn't involved.

That is, the contracts the club made with Negreira Sr and Jr would be separate (though it seems strange). The advice provided by Negreira Sr himself, according to the club, was made verbally.

Barca were paying his son for reports in addition to money to his father?

 

[ajnotkeith]

El hijo de Negreira acusa al Barcelona y a su padre: "Los 7,5 millones no fueron por los informes, yo cobré 60.000 €"

EL ESPAÑOL accede a la declaración ante la jueza del 'caso Negreira' de Javier Enríquez, que desliza la corrupción al club y al exvicepresidente del CTA. Más información: El hijo de Negreira cobró 7.000 euros al Barça por el mismo informe que vendió a un periódico por 26 €

www.elespanol.com

Negreira Jr agreed to testify against his father, and stated in court that the 8 million paid wasn't for his own work. He said that he himself earned around 60,000 euros per year for the reports he authored (around 600, some estimates are 800+). He adds that :

“Barca lied to the Hacienda, saying that I was the contact point at DASNIL-95 (Negreira Sr's company). My conclusion is that they are trying to distance themselves from my father whilst using me as a pretext."

"I did not know that (my father) was charging millions of euros from Barcelona. He told me, again and again, that he was not allowed to work with any club as he was the vice president of the CTA."

"My listing as an administrator of the company was fictitious. I have never received a single euro that went from FCB to my father and I have never had any contact or involvement with FCB's relationship with DASNIL-95 or NILSAD (Negreira Sr's companies). I did not know about the relationship between them".

 

[ajnotkeith]

Barca were paying his son for reports in addition to money to his father?

Yes. You can see it in the post above.

His son ran his own business where he would provide coaching and reports, and Barca also paid him for reports, which he did actually provide, though they overpaid significantly. He said the real value was around 20 euros, but Barca tended to pay him around 600 euros per report. He earned around 70k a year.

He said in court that his business with Barca was unrelated to his father's and the reports he provided were not through his father's contract with Barca. That is, any reports authored by him were corresponding to another separate contract between himself and FCB. The reports being shown in public and referred to by Lopez are the reports authored by Negreira Jr.

 

[Jay-Jay]

Some combination of an official conning the club into believing you have to pay for influence to get a fair treatment. Something along those lines.

The club paid him, stopped paying him at some point, got blackmailed to resume payments, refused to do it, and case popped out.

Can't prove pretty much anything.

Can't prove who contacted who, no tapes, no money trails, bank accounts, testimonies of refs and other officials who were involved in this supposed scheme, no nothing.

Most likely, we got conned by a criminal because we were idiots and paranoid about Madrid getting favors from the refs, and we suffer the consequences.

I agree with everything except that we weren’t paranoid, but rather that Madrid have always been favoured by the referees.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Negreira Jr, in court, said that Barca used him as a misdirection to mask their dealings with his father.

They would have told the Hacienda that Negreira Jr was the one providing the services for which the 8 million was billed, but he has denied it completely and said he had nothing to do with it.

This also corresponds with his statement that his father had made him an administrator of the company even though he did not have any actual role in it. Which could be an attempt to build an alibi by misleading authorities on who the contract was with.

 

[Jay-Jay]

Blackmail doesnt just happen to stop when he leaves his role.

'Reasons' is no argument.

It is too little money for it to be laundering and what those involved would stand to lose if exposed in my opinion.

But that can be used in situations like this. We were laundering money, but now that you’re no longer involved, it doesn’t make sense to keep paying you for referee reports since you’re no longer in that role. It could also be a combination of both.

I consider 7 million split between, for example, 5 people not a small amount at all.

 

[Jay-Jay]

Negreira Jr, in court, said that Barca used him as a misdirection to mask their dealings with his father.

They would have told the Hacienda that Negreira Jr was the one providing the services for which the 8 million was billed, but he has denied it completely and said he had nothing to do with it.

This also corresponds with his statement that his father had made him an administrator of the company even though he did not have any actual role in it. Which could be an attempt to build an alibi by misleading authorities on who the contract was with.

Negreira Jr. is a liar and there’s no way he didn’t know what was going on. He’s just trying to save his own ass.

 

[ajnotkeith]

But that can be used in situations like this. We were laundering money, but now that you’re no longer involved, it doesn’t make sense to keep paying you for referee reports since you’re no longer in that role. It could also be a combination of both.

I consider 7 million split between, for example, 5 people not a small amount at all.

It makes no sense to embezzle money with the vice president of the CTA though, because you are taking huge unnecessary risk and inviting extra charges of sports corruption.

There are much easier ways to do that, obviously, without framing yourself for bribery.

 

[JamDav1982]

Everyone involved is most likely lying and trying to save their own arse.

Barca included.