Yo people forget that. EV biggest problem was he couldnt calm down the players. Thats a big skill which Zidane and Ancelotti can do very well. In la liga pressure was much less so it was easy to dominate with EV's tactics. In CL you need to stay cool. Pep has also this problem thats why he only won 1 cl at City so far. Overall i think EV achieved much more than we expected, i mean we lost ll/cl to Real in 2017 + lost Ney. EV won 2 lls. Squad was also crap, looked great on paper but some players were already finished for top lvl.
Ernesto Valverde
- Thread starter Joan
- Start date
Yo people forget that. EV biggest problem was he couldnt calm down the players. Thats a big skill which Zidane and Ancelotti can do very well. In la liga pressure was much less so it was easy to dominate with EV's tactics. In CL you need to stay cool. Pep has also this problem thats why he only won 1 cl at City so far. Overall i think EV achieved much more than we expected, i mean we lost ll/cl to Real in 2017 + lost Ney. EV won 2 lls. Squad was also crap, looked great on paper but some players were already finished for top lvl.
EV's problem imo was the the let too many players adhere to the Amigo culture, you make exceptions for some difference makers because you have no choice, but then you also need around them some players who would realize they are neither Messi or Suarez in quality and they have to deliver and work hard. We had defenders who thought they were starts also, plus a bum in goal who couldn't save shit. This killed us.
The model that would have brought us big results with that style was Sabella and Scaloni Argentina. Some 2-3 players exempt from putting a big shift, but then others don't get the same treatment.
The model that would have brought us big results with that style was Sabella and Scaloni Argentina. Some 2-3 players exempt from putting a big shift, but then others don't get the same treatment.
Khaled_a_d
Active member
Scaloni model was mostly the same as EV one in his first year. It needed some additions to build around it and improve it.
Then Umtiti destroyed his knees, and Abidal came with the idea to force the coach into another system by selling players that made ot work (Paulinho) and getting players who absolutely can't play that system (Arthur, Vidal, Malcom) in addition to the mediocre guys like Lenglet.
People loves to shit on Deco, but Abidal was a Bartomeu esque of the football SD.
Then Umtiti destroyed his knees, and Abidal came with the idea to force the coach into another system by selling players that made ot work (Paulinho) and getting players who absolutely can't play that system (Arthur, Vidal, Malcom) in addition to the mediocre guys like Lenglet.
People loves to shit on Deco, but Abidal was a Bartomeu esque of the football SD.
We had poor defenders who behaved like stars. Pique gotten soft, Alba was soft. We didn't have a defense to absorb pressure and decide games with Messi leading the charge. Nor a winger like Raphinha at the time to add steel in the team, but another soft wannabe star like Coutinho.
The tactical setup by EV was spot on, I agree. In retrospect, he set up the team the only way it could win at the time. His man management was poor though. And he was no leader at all. Just a quiet good lad. Overall, there's no doubt for me that a better manager would have taken EV's good approach all the way.
soul24rage
Active member
Scaloni's model is definitely not the same as EV's. Scaloni is more of hard work, tactical flexibility, grit and combination plays to which EV's team didn't display at all.
However, you can argue that EV didn't had the players to implement the style that Scaloni showed.
Khaled_a_d
Active member
In first year? I disagree.
The ideas were similar but he lacked fresh blood.
Raki in 17/18 season along Paulinho were workhorses, with Iniesta being a bit similar to ADM.
Alvarez/Lautaro for Suarez, and De Paul for Busquets obviously being the main differences, but that was more due to lack of options and age, but the idea remained about stopping to pretend Messi is a winger, and play around him and his strength while everyone else working around that.
There was plenty of combination, but let's not pretend that Argentina against better sides didn't rely on mistakes of the opponents and Messi's brilliances to break defenses, while being conservative overall on the other end.
I think main difference was joker card Dibu vs Stegen, and 2nd a more rugged defense. No way in hell would a competent keeper receive 4 goals considering how many big chances Liverpool actually created. A year later Oblak faced 3 times worse and received half the goals in 120 mins. We had a bad defense and a crapper in goal. Argentina had a solid defense, not perfect, and a jolly joker who would save them when defense failed.
soul24rage
Active member
Are we talking of formation or tactics? If it's tactics, then I disagree. The Pressing and Aggression off the ball is a huge difference compared to EV's. Also in terms of build up, Scaloni's players are more free to move around (especially in the flanks where there is more rotations).
For Argentina's second goal vs Australia in the WC 22, can you imagine any player in the EV's 17/18 squad doing the same thing?
The only thing that EV and Scaloni have in common in getting the best out of Messi.
Rassvet
Member
nah that's revisionist af
Barca the previous season played 433 with Messi towards the right. At the start of the transfer window, the plan that Barca board and most fans wanted was to keep the system and attack the same while adding more creative players in midfield like Verratti or Eriksen. When Neymar left, Barca fans/club wanted to replace him with other big name creative attackers that window rather than overhaul team setup.
Not true at all that 442 without wingers and Messi having a free role behind a striker was the common thinking until Valverde made it work in 17/18 season.
Joan
Active member
They’re distorting the history to erase Mister’s contributions. But real Barca fans will remember.
I hated Valverde with a passion,still do. Those CL debacles still hang heavy over the club.
Its important we win the CL just to get over that mental hump and instill belief once again at the club.
Messi and Suarez still had enough for La Liga but we're basically liabilities in CL, especially when the going got tough.
Than you had the cuck Shitverde who skipped hard, physical training and gave players days off after defeats. Him squatting on the sidelines looking totally clueless still infuriates me. An ESPN article really revealed what a spineless pussy he was.
Fuck him. Despite winning a few trophies not even a bottom level epl club wants him.
Its important we win the CL just to get over that mental hump and instill belief once again at the club.
Messi and Suarez still had enough for La Liga but we're basically liabilities in CL, especially when the going got tough.
Than you had the cuck Shitverde who skipped hard, physical training and gave players days off after defeats. Him squatting on the sidelines looking totally clueless still infuriates me. An ESPN article really revealed what a spineless pussy he was.
Fuck him. Despite winning a few trophies not even a bottom level epl club wants him.