Ferran Torres

[JamDav1982]

Alvarez went months with one goal..

Ferran had the better season of the two.

Doesnt mean Alvarez wont be better for Barca but Ferran does plenty better than him.

 

[Temptation]

I understand how little moments like the WC winning goal can give players huge fame and shift their reputation but I didn't expect people to really shift this much on Ferran.

Suddenly the guy who went months without scoring in FLICK Barça, was missing sitters practically every game all season and we scolded him for it, couldn't get a foot right in most games... is the elite targetman who finishes every chance and has elite positioning and box movement.

For banging a ball in from 5 meters in empty goal with no one marking him.

Look, this is really impressive what he did. Scoring WC winning goal is huge thing. But remember that Gotze scored it too. It can happen, I mean for all intens and purposes WC final is game like any other - played with a ball, on the pitch, 11v11, goalkeepers, tactics, everything... It can happen you score, doesn't change you as a player.

Nah I hate recency bias and I don't rate Ferran or Alvarez. But Alvarez is indeed the better footballer.

The real question is should you spend 140 mil on a player who probably wouldn't get you 30 goals a season in all comps (Alvarez doesn't have that in his locker). Osimhen can provide you that output.

 

[TomCat]

Alvarez is better than Ferran at striking goals.

Again, stats are not the only thing that matters.

Ferran outscored Alvarez only last season, when Alvarez was in bad form, struggled mentally and also played for a far weaker side.

It's funny how being in bad form and struggling mentally is an excuse for Alvarez but not for Ferran. Your excuse is exactly what Ferran is being lambasted for at Barca.

We need to watch out with overpaying for players. Alvarez cost Manchester City approximately 21.4m euro. Guess how much we paid for Braithwaite? 18m euro. This fact alone should make us tread carefully and learn from our transfer history.

 

[Temptation]

Alvarez is a better finisher than Ferran

I am not going to argue with you on this one mate. You didn't suffer watching Ferran miss sitter after sitter with Yamal feeding him 10 big chances per game in league.

Then scoring some tap in towards end of the game and getting lift to the heavens for it.

Example: Elche game. Look it up. This guy missed 2-3 sitters, scored a goal later. Stats don't count this shit.

Alvarez misses a lot too though.

And you already know I don't rate Ferran whatsoever.

Alvarez is better than Ferran overall but is he really a 100 mil better? Because that's gonna be the difference in selling price.

 

[MonteCuler]

Nah I hate recency bias and I don't rate Ferran or Alvarez. But Alvarez is indeed the better footballer.

The real question is should you spend 140 mil on a player who probably wouldn't get you 30 goals a season in all comps (Alvarez doesn't have that in his locker). Osimhen can provide you that output.

Osimhen is the better option of course. But we can't afford Osimhen. His wages would create chaos in dressing room. Renewals would be nightmare.

Alvarez is the best option after Osimhen. Which is why we are after him. And because he expressed a huge desire to play for the club, which is always welcoming.

 

[MonteCuler]

It's funny how being in bad form and struggling mentally is an excuse for Alvarez but not for Ferran. Your excuse is exactly what Ferran is being lambasted for at Barca.

We need to watch out with overpaying for players. Alvarez cost Manchester City approximately 21.4m euro. Guess how much we paid for Braithwaite? 18m euro. This fact alone should make us tread carefully and learn from our transfer history.

It's not an excuse for Alvarez. Neither is it for Ferran.

But Alvarez was struggling like this one season. Ferran has been since start of his career. He did not have one season where he was consistent from start to finish and actually impressed everyone. He always had fluctuations.

Alvarez had 24/25 season in Atletico, where he was great and consistent. He was useful for City off the bench. He was very good for Argentina in Qatar.

 

[JamDav1982]

Absolute nonsense.

Ferran scored/assisted for City at better rate than Alvarez and has scored more at international level.

He has better goals/assists rate than Alvarez in each of the past two seasons.

Ferran was better than Alvarez last season and the season before.

 

[TomCat]

It's not an excuse for Alvarez. Neither is it for Ferran.

But Alvarez was struggling like this one season. Ferran has been since start of his career. He did not have one season where he was consistent from start to finish and actually impressed everyone. He always had fluctuations.

Alvarez had 24/25 season in Atletico, where he was great and consistent. He was useful for City off the bench. He was very good for Argentina in Qatar.

Ferran is a 65m euro player with the expectations of a 150m euro striker. The irony here is that Alvarez will have the same expectations here at Barca with the difference being that he'd actually be a 150m euro signing. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Temptation]

I think sometimes people (including managers and players) just need a fresh start and a shiny new toy. They need something positive to look forward to.

Ferran probably has too much baggage atp according to the fanbase and potentially Flick. Alvarez will be a fresh start and the fanbase will be more excited. Flick will get to work with a new and more talented player. As would the squad. If money wasn't a factor you would take Alvarez for the new season anyday.

Alvarez would be much more refreshing and rejuvenating for everyone.

I understand Monte's point completely although he's exaggerating a bit to sell his argument (we all are guilty of this).

But Alvarez definitely isn't a 100 mil euros better than Ferran. That's what Atleti will ask for.

 

[MonteCuler]

Absolute nonsense.

Ferran scored/assisted for City at better rate than Alvarez and has scored more at international level.

He has better goals/assists rate than Alvarez in each of the past two seasons.

Ferran was better than Alvarez last season and the season before.

Ferran was not better than Alvarez in 24/25 season. Zero chance.

Ferran was bench player for Lewa, Alvarez was starter for Atleti. I guess this is why you use "rate" and not actual stats. Of course you will have better "rate" with less minutes, simple maths.

Alvarez was dominating Real in CL, outperforming Ferran in the league. Ferran was non existent vs Inter, warmed the bench for Lewa and had his impact off the bench in a 10x better team.

This is a shit argument. For 25/26 I can see your argument but 24/25 Alvarez was far better.

 

[MonteCuler]

Ferran is a 65m euro player with the expectations of a 150m euro striker.

This is ridiculous

Expectations for Ferran are in the absolute trenches

His tech, ball control, passing, hold up, link up... utter garbage

His goals and assists are also wank considering the number of chances he had

Yet you guys treat him as some elite finisher on here

And yeah, 65m or 150m... standards for Barca starting striker should be the same. If you are not good enough, you get replaced, as simple as that

 

[JamDav1982]

Ferran was not better than Alvarez in 24/25 season. Zero chance.

Ferran was bench player for Lewa, Alvarez was starter for Atleti. I guess this is why you use "rate" and not actual stats. Of course you will have better "rate" with less minutes, simple maths.

Alvarez was dominating Real in CL, outperforming Ferran in the league. Ferran was non existent vs Inter, warmed the bench for Lewa and had his impact off the bench in a 10x better team.

This is a shit argument. For 25/26 I can see your argument but 24/25 Alvarez was far better.

Ferran was better than him and more decisive in a winning team in 24/25.

Better last season also and more decisive. Including World Cup.

Alvarez dominating Real?

That the same season Ferran scored v Real as Barca won Cup Final and assisted 3 v them as won the league in what was more or less the decider?

Same season?

Same season Ferran scored twice as Barca came from 2-0 down away to Atletico? Same season Ferran scored winner away to Atletico in the cup?

 

[Temptation]

Fresh Substitutes coming on against tired legs and mostly in games where the result was already secured can't be compared to starters who are the main men for big clubs.

Choupo-Moting at Bayern had a higher goals per 90 than most elite strikers in Europe. Not a single one of those teams would take him to replace their strikers.

Context is king. In 24/25 Flick's Barca were cooking teams with their starting frontline and certainly didn't rely on Ferran as one of the key difference-makers in most games. He was just a good squad player. Alvarez in 24/25 was Atleti's main man. Huge difference.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ferran was big difference maker for Barca in past two seasons.

More so than Alvarez was for Atletico.

Bigger difference maker at World Cup also.

 

[MonteCuler]

Ferran was better than him and more decisive in a winning team in 24/25.

Better last season also and more decisive. Including World Cup.

Alvarez dominating Real?

That the same season Ferran scored v Real as Barca won Cup Final and assisted 3 v them as won the league in what was more or less the decider?

Same season?

Same season Ferran scored twice as Barca came from 2-0 down away to Atletico? Same season Ferran scored winner away to Atletico in the cup?

Yes Alvarez dominating Real. On his own. Scoring bangers outside of the box, dribbling, creating chances. On his own.

Without Yamal, Pedri, Raphinha, Flick...

All what you mentioned is great but normal for first option bench player who comes late in the game against tired legs. I don't really rate players based on these Luuk de Jong heroic moments.

A bench player from a far superior side, a side that is probably the most offensive minded in world of football and especially in that season, who plays with some of best players in the world - for me he can never have a better season than someone who is the best player in a team like Atletico, starts and plays every game, had something like 1500 minutes more, outperformed him in every stat.

This is nonsense argument, really.

 

[JamDav1982]

Funny how the 'good sub' argument is used for Alvarez at City... when he actually scored/assisted less per min than Ferran at that club.

Then for Ferran being very impactful off bench as well as when started it is about playing down what subs do.

Top logic.

 

[MonteCuler]

Ferran was big difference maker for Barca in past two seasons.

More so than Alvarez was for Atletico.

Bigger difference maker at World Cup also

He is difference maker off the bench. Alvarez is Atletico's difference maker on the pitch. These are two seperate things, and I don't think it's necessary to argue which is harder. Why do less skilled players always hold the bench? It is a very simple thing.

 

[JamDav1982]

Alvarez dominated Real so much he fluffed his penalty that put them out the CL.

Ferran assisted x3 v them in league decider... but ignore that.

 

[MonteCuler]

Funny how the 'good sub' argument is used for Alvarez at City... when he actually scored/assisted less per min than Ferran at that club.

Then for Ferran being very impactful off bench as well as when started it is about playing down what subs do.

Top logic.

I don't use Alvarez at City as some main argument. I just brought it up among the other instances when he was consistently good.

Among which is 24/25 season. And of course Qatar WC.

You could make argument Ferran was never really consistently good.

 

[TomCat]

I think we need to bring back Alemany. Dude

This is ridiculous

Expectations for Ferran are in the absolute trenches

His tech, ball control, passing, hold up, link up... utter garbage

His goals and assists are also wank considering the number of chances he had

Yet you guys treat him as some elite finisher on here

And yeah, 65m or 150m... standards for Barca starting striker should be the same. If you are not good enough, you get replaced, as simple as that

The problem with Ferran is that his transfer fee isn't being taken into account. If he's as poor as many on here claim (which he isn't), one could clearly make the argument that he's living up to the expectations that one should have for a player who cost 65m.

Also, the higher the transfer fee, the higher the expectations. This, in turn, affects the player, for now he must prove that he's worth the high amount paid for him. So transfer fee absolutely makes a difference in how players perform.

it's always easier to write off a low cost disappointment. But when a club pays a fortune for a player and he underperforms massively, it becomes a tough pill to swallow.
And it could absolutely happen to Alvarez too, seeing as he's struggled mentally and with his form (consistency) at AM. The past tends to repeat itself. That's not what one wants when spending ~ 120-150m on a transfer.