Hansi Flick

I think he's right. Yamal can do this in his own time. He has a huge platform so if he wants to use it for good he can.
It's a lie what is printed in the tweet, those words were never uttered by Flick - he only said he normally doesn't like 'this' and the implication was the political act and never specifically said anything about Palestine or the flag...that he talked to the player about it and it was up to him, its ok

And absolutely it is ok, it's more than ok - its courage & leadership from an 18 year old child of muslim immigrants who sees genocide being silenced
 
It's a lie what is printed in the tweet, those words were never uttered by Flick - he only said he normally doesn't like 'this' and the implication was the political act and never specifically said anything about Palestine or the flag...that he talked to the player about it and it was up to him, its ok

And absolutely it is ok, it's more than ok - its courage & leadership from an 18 year old child of muslim immigrants who sees genocide being silenced
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Yamal shared any fundraisers etc (let alone start them?) There are tons of funding appeals from Gaza that would probably generate several millions if he just gave them a repost on his Insta, he doesn't need to put his hand in his pocket at all, he can make a huge difference just with a post.

That's what makes it strike me as a little performative because he has much simpler and much easier ways to directly make a difference at no personal cost to him.

So now that he's expressed interest in the issue, let him take 2 seconds to share some posts and bring millions in aid to sick Gazans.

Regardless of what our positions are on the issue, for any young people here, everyone can account that certain political views have become trendy and social symbols to display to others. That's why it's nicer to see real action (even very easy actions like mentioned above) especially from celebrities and people with the means to do it rather than symbolism.
 
We live in a world where

- Authenticity is in woefully short supply

- Authenticity is no longer socially valued

A world where your talk matters more than your walk.

Especially from celebrities and incredibly rich football players, seeing gestures aligned with socially popular politics increasingly comes off as cheap and frankly meaningless. It's easy to wave a flag or wear a pin badge knowing you will have armies of brain rotted teenagers posting about how brave you are.

In a society where you are endlessly incentivised to show your virtue to others, actions are far, far louder than words. I hope he takes some now that he has thrown his hat into the ring and that this won't be it for his 'career in politics'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BJJ
It's a lie what is printed in the tweet, those words were never uttered by Flick - he only said he normally doesn't like 'this' and the implication was the political act and never specifically said anything about Palestine or the flag...that he talked to the player about it and it was up to him, its ok

And absolutely it is ok, it's more than ok - its courage & leadership from an 18 year old child of muslim immigrants who sees genocide being silenced
Flick indeed probably just meant Yamal shouldn't mix politics into football, not as a comment on Israel/Palestine...and I agree with him. Yamal is part of FC Barcelona and has to follow our guidelines just like anybody else in the "corporate" world.
 
The sooner people realise that the human being is inherently selfish, the easier life will become for everyone.

All of this is mere performative, virtue signalling. And to the very few who it is not, they are satisfying some other inner desire of theirs, whether that be pertaining to their emotional attachment to their religion/culture, or doing their duty so they can have a more comfortable afterlife.

Then there are the ' white knights ' who enjoy going to protests to fulfil their need to feel morally superior, or alternatively practice their self hatred amongst fellow self haters.

At the end of the day, whichever way you slice and dice it, it's about fulfilling one's own desires. Which wouldn't actually be much of a problem if there wasn't so much social collateral damage.
 
The sooner people realise that the human being is inherently selfish, the easier life will become for everyone.

All of this is mere performative, virtue signalling. And to the very few who it is not, they are satisfying some other inner desire of theirs, whether that be pertaining to their emotional attachment to their religion/culture, or doing their duty so they can have a more comfortable afterlife.

Then there are the ' white knights ' who enjoy going to protests to fulfil their need to feel morally superior, or alternatively practice their self hatred amongst fellow self haters.

At the end of the day, whichever way you slice and dice it, it's about fulfilling one's own desires. Which wouldn't actually be much of a problem if there wasn't so much social collateral damage.
You drunk mate?
 
The sooner people realise that the human being is inherently selfish, the easier life will become for everyone.

All of this is mere performative, virtue signalling. And to the very few who it is not, they are satisfying some other inner desire of theirs, whether that be pertaining to their emotional attachment to their religion/culture, or doing their duty so they can have a more comfortable afterlife.

Then there are the ' white knights ' who enjoy going to protests to fulfil their need to feel morally superior, or alternatively practice their self hatred amongst fellow self haters.

At the end of the day, whichever way you slice and dice it, it's about fulfilling one's own desires. Which wouldn't actually be much of a problem if there wasn't so much social collateral damage.
You shouldn't group in genuinely helping others with virtue signalling and performative behaviour, because one is genuinely damaging to the fabric of society, and one is generally beneficial and symbiotic.

If someone is genuinely giving help to another because it makes them feel good or they meet their inner desire or whatever you say = good thing as long as it isn't hurting others.

The difference is that performativeness and virtue signalling (often an extension of narcissistic traits) actually causes significant damage because the people doing it are actually looking to manipulate and deceive people, whilst not helping.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Yamal shared any fundraisers etc (let alone start them?) There are tons of funding appeals from Gaza that would probably generate several millions if he just gave them a repost on his Insta, he doesn't need to put his hand in his pocket at all, he can make a huge difference just with a post.

That's what makes it strike me as a little performative because he has much simpler and much easier ways to directly make a difference at no personal cost to him.

So now that he's expressed interest in the issue, let him take 2 seconds to share some posts and bring millions in aid to sick Gazans.

Regardless of what our positions are on the issue, for any young people here, everyone can account that certain political views have become trendy and social symbols to display to others. That's why it's nicer to see real action (even very easy actions like mentioned above) especially from celebrities and people with the means to do it rather than symbolism.
I will correct you, you are absolutely, and I might add, deliberately, wrong.

You want to shift the goalpost from symbolic speech or act to material aid. Lamine waved a flag during a public celebration as an act of political expression—specifically, showing solidarity with Palestinians during a genocide that has been ignored if not deliberately silenced. You aren't challenging the flag’s meaning or the morality of waving it. So while you might concede the issue matters you demand that Yamal immediately transition from symbol to a fundraiser. It's a nonsensical attempt to silence dissent

Symbolic acts are not invalid because they doesn’t come with a GoFundMe link. By that logic, any athlete, actor, or public figure who has ever raised a fist, worn a pin, or taken a knee would first have to show receipts for charitable donations. That’s not an logical standard applied equally much less ethically when it comes to genocide—it’s a trap.

Once you demand action beyond the action taken, no act is ever enough. The goal becomes endless moving of goalposts until the original gesture is buried under bad faith critique.

You imply the flag-waving is perhaps “a little performative.” But “performative” by definition is not automatically negative—all public political gestures are performative in the theatrical sense. The question is whether the performer believes in the act. There’s zero evidence Yamal is faking solidarity. He’s an 18-year-old Muslim immigrant’s child from a Catalan club with pro-Palestine fan culture. Waving that flag in front of millions, knowing it would draw controversy, carries real risk—sponsors, Spanish media, potential sanctions. That’s the opposite of empty performance.
If waving a flag is “performative,” then so is taking a knee, wearing a Black Lives Matter shirt, or protesting with a sign. You want to use the term to silence the act and ignore the specific value of flag-waving in the context of genocide

Flags matter enormously in the Palestine solidarity movement because one of the Israeli government’s stated actions has been to suppress the Palestinian flag as “incitement” much less uttering the word or having pins/symbols. Waving it on a victory parade for the biggest club in the world is not a small thing—it’s a deliberate act of visibility in a context where Palestinian identity itself is being targeted. Fundraisers don’t do what flags do. Flags say: These people exist. These people have rights and You will see us.

It’s the common dismissal tactic in the anti-semitism sphere of trying to silence criticism of Israel for their ongoing genocide. Under that lens, any public stance by a celebrity is suspect unless accompanied by a proven track record of hard, unglamorous work. That standard would silence almost everyone. And it conveniently doesn’t apply to, say, wearing a poppy or a national team shirt—only to controversial stances. Illogical critique in bad faith—a rhetorical weapon designed to make solidarity feel exhausting and pointless. Nice try
 
Yeah imo he shouldn't have. The only flags he should have waved is the Barca one - and I'm coming from a place where I 100% support Catalonia. Flags might matter in the Palestine movement, but throwing out Hamas should have mattered more... Also, stop making this a question of semitism/antisemitism - you're in deep water bro.
 
Also, this is the Hansi Flick thread - if you guys want to discuss other shit put it in some other thread...
 
I will correct you, you are absolutely, and I might add, deliberately, wrong.

You want to shift the goalpost from symbolic speech or act to material aid. Lamine waved a flag during a public celebration as an act of political expression—specifically, showing solidarity with Palestinians during a genocide that has been ignored if not deliberately silenced. You aren't challenging the flag’s meaning or the morality of waving it. So while you might concede the issue matters you demand that Yamal immediately transition from symbol to a fundraiser. It's a nonsensical attempt to silence dissent

Symbolic acts are not invalid because they doesn’t come with a GoFundMe link. By that logic, any athlete, actor, or public figure who has ever raised a fist, worn a pin, or taken a knee would first have to show receipts for charitable donations. That’s not an logical standard applied equally much less ethically when it comes to genocide—it’s a trap.

Once you demand action beyond the action taken, no act is ever enough. The goal becomes endless moving of goalposts until the original gesture is buried under bad faith critique.

You imply the flag-waving is perhaps “a little performative.” But “performative” by definition is not automatically negative—all public political gestures are performative in the theatrical sense. The question is whether the performer believes in the act. There’s zero evidence Yamal is faking solidarity. He’s an 18-year-old Muslim immigrant’s child from a Catalan club with pro-Palestine fan culture. Waving that flag in front of millions, knowing it would draw controversy, carries real risk—sponsors, Spanish media, potential sanctions. That’s the opposite of empty performance.
If waving a flag is “performative,” then so is taking a knee, wearing a Black Lives Matter shirt, or protesting with a sign. You want to use the term to silence the act and ignore the specific value of flag-waving in the context of genocide

Flags matter enormously in the Palestine solidarity movement because one of the Israeli government’s stated actions has been to suppress the Palestinian flag as “incitement” much less uttering the word or having pins/symbols. Waving it on a victory parade for the biggest club in the world is not a small thing—it’s a deliberate act of visibility in a context where Palestinian identity itself is being targeted. Fundraisers don’t do what flags do. Flags say: These people exist. These people have rights and You will see us.

It’s the common dismissal tactic in the anti-semitism sphere of trying to silence criticism of Israel for their ongoing genocide. Under that lens, any public stance by a celebrity is suspect unless accompanied by a proven track record of hard, unglamorous work. That standard would silence almost everyone. And it conveniently doesn’t apply to, say, wearing a poppy or a national team shirt—only to controversial stances. Illogical critique in bad faith—a rhetorical weapon designed to make solidarity feel exhausting and pointless. Nice try
Do you think if I asked my GPT with nicer framing around my point, that it might give me a different reply?

There is not really risk in his action exactly for the reasons mentioned in the answer. Whilst stating that he is from a Catalan club with a pro Palestinian fanbase, GPT has answered that he risks sponsors, sanctions etc? It's precisely giving the reasons why he wouldn't be sanctioned and wouldn't lose sponsors, because his environment and employer is already supportive of it, and indeed the public at large are already supportive of it, there is pretty much zero chance he will face any consequence. It's a very socially acceptable view, there is no risk involved.

So if anything, holding this position is socially rewarding, not risky, that is what invites scepticism for symbolic acts.

I also never said he was antisemitic, I assume this context was inserted by GPT because of a previous discussion you had or something you mentioned in the prompt, but no, I didn't say that and I don't think he is antisemitic.

I never said he has to do hard, unglamorous work either, it's again the opposite, the example I proposed doesn't actually require any effort.

That is why the absence is conspicuous because it requires no actual effort or sacrifice on his part and is probably easier than getting yourself into controversy over flag waving.


"Symbolic acts are not invalid because they doesn’t come with a GoFundMe link. By that logic, any athlete, actor, or public figure who has ever raised a fist, worn a pin, or taken a knee would first have to show receipts for charitable donations. That’s not an logical standard applied equally much less ethically when it comes to genocide—it’s a trap."

: It depends what the cause is. When someone tries to start a campaign or otherwise takes a public action, the same logic applies to that as applies to the decisions of every rational human being ; you are evaluating the pros and cons, effort vs reward, what your overall goal of doing something is, etc. So there are some cases symbolic actions could make more sense, for example, for causes that are fairly unknown or lack public visibility. In that case there is material gain in raising awareness. In other cases your motivation can be self serving. It's not a binary and every situation is different as GPT will acknowledge itself if given this reply.

So I don't say every symbolic act has to be virtue signalling. Sometimes it makes sense and aligns with someone's personal history.

This specific act is preaching to the choir. Like GPT says, the club and fanbase is already pro Palestine, so waving the flag doesn't serve to raise awareness of the conflict. The newsworthy point here is that Lamine Yamal is pro-Palestine, that is what people are talking about. It hasn't triggered any discussion over the political issue because it has already been extensively discussed before and continues to. So the attention generated is only really on him personally.

However, he has a much quicker, much more substantive and easier way to offer his contribution that would demonstrate his support for Palestine anyway whilst materially improving the situation.

So the real question is, what are his reasons not to do it? We live in a time where unfortunately some scepticism of purely symbolic acts is a given, as such positions are socially rewarding and carry little risk, so the absence or choice not to contribute in an easier and more material way is noticeable.
 
Also, this is the Hansi Flick thread - if you guys want to discuss other shit put it in some other thread...
This is in the Flick thread because he commented on it and because Yamal did it during the Laliga parade. So its become a topic about our player and manager rather than solely political.

That's probably exactly the reason Flick said he didn't like it mainly because he doesn't want discussion of the team to be mixed with politics, but that is precisely what will happen now.
 
This is in the Flick thread because he commented on it and because Yamal did it during the Laliga parade. So its become a topic about our player and manager rather than solely political.

That's probably exactly the reason Flick said he didn't like it mainly because he doesn't want discussion of the team to be mixed with politics, but that is precisely what will happen now.
He commented on it because people wanted to make drama out of it and pulled it out of him, fair enough. But we're a football club, not a political organization...
 
Yeah, sportsmen sportspersons are literally forced to go out on game night with pederast flags on their sleeves or support B(urn)L(loot)M(urder) niggas, ukrop solidarity marches and other utterly preposterous political activisms signals that is forced down our throats from autoritah, but as soon as it's something that yids don't like and not doe on orders of superiors, it's a problem. Especially in a case of an actual ongoing holocaust.
He should be free to do whatever he wants given that politics are not only allowed, but heavily infused in modern day professional sports.
Will be interesting mixed reactions in USA.
 
Also Hansi's English just isn't that good. He can't articulate his thoughts as well as he would in his native language. Nonsense to believe he has any problems with Lamine raising the flag on a personal level. Probably just thinks it's better to leave politics out because in the end there might be some people in the team/sponsors that has some personal connection to Israel and that would just cause unnecessary drama over nothing. Politics is the reason why good friends and otherwise decent people can turn into enemies, people can be just that petty.
 
It was ok to support ukraine. Double standards i say.
Don’t remember Ukraine attacking Russia first. If they had, the support wouldn’t be so strong. Israel are only defending themselves and their future. Not that I’m taking any sides. Both Palestina and Israel can burn to the ground for all I care.
 
Don’t remember Ukraine attacking Russia first. If they had, the support wouldn’t be so strong. Israel are only defending themselves and their future. Not that I’m taking any sides. Both Palestina and Israel can burn to the ground for all I care.
"Israel are only defending themselves and their future". that's you taking sides right there. Israel is an apartheid state that's currently committing a genocide against Palestinians. What Lamine did is very courageous and makes me like him even more than i already did.
 
Do you think if I asked my GPT with nicer framing around my point, that it might give me a different reply?

There is not really risk in his action exactly for the reasons mentioned in the answer. Whilst stating that he is from a Catalan club with a pro Palestinian fanbase, GPT has answered that he risks sponsors, sanctions etc? It's precisely giving the reasons why he wouldn't be sanctioned and wouldn't lose sponsors, because his environment and employer is already supportive of it, and indeed the public at large are already supportive of it, there is pretty much zero chance he will face any consequence. It's a very socially acceptable view, there is no risk involved.

So if anything, holding this position is socially rewarding, not risky, that is what invites scepticism for symbolic acts.

I also never said he was antisemitic, I assume this context was inserted by GPT because of a previous discussion you had or something you mentioned in the prompt, but no, I didn't say that and I don't think he is antisemitic.

I never said he has to do hard, unglamorous work either, it's again the opposite, the example I proposed doesn't actually require any effort.

That is why the absence is conspicuous because it requires no actual effort or sacrifice on his part and is probably easier than getting yourself into controversy over flag waving.


"Symbolic acts are not invalid because they doesn’t come with a GoFundMe link. By that logic, any athlete, actor, or public figure who has ever raised a fist, worn a pin, or taken a knee would first have to show receipts for charitable donations. That’s not an logical standard applied equally much less ethically when it comes to genocide—it’s a trap."

: It depends what the cause is. When someone tries to start a campaign or otherwise takes a public action, the same logic applies to that as applies to the decisions of every rational human being ; you are evaluating the pros and cons, effort vs reward, what your overall goal of doing something is, etc. So there are some cases symbolic actions could make more sense, for example, for causes that are fairly unknown or lack public visibility. In that case there is material gain in raising awareness. In other cases your motivation can be self serving. It's not a binary and every situation is different as GPT will acknowledge itself if given this reply.

So I don't say every symbolic act has to be virtue signalling. Sometimes it makes sense and aligns with someone's personal history.

This specific act is preaching to the choir. Like GPT says, the club and fanbase is already pro Palestine, so waving the flag doesn't serve to raise awareness of the conflict. The newsworthy point here is that Lamine Yamal is pro-Palestine, that is what people are talking about. It hasn't triggered any discussion over the political issue because it has already been extensively discussed before and continues to. So the attention generated is only really on him personally.

However, he has a much quicker, much more substantive and easier way to offer his contribution that would demonstrate his support for Palestine anyway whilst materially improving the situation.

So the real question is, what are his reasons not to do it? We live in a time where unfortunately some scepticism of purely symbolic acts is a given, as such positions are socially rewarding and carry little risk, so the absence or choice not to contribute in an easier and more material way is noticeable.
the fact you wrote this bullshit essay to chastise him proves that he's in fact not preaching to the choir. He did something that earned him criticism from bad faith actors like you who are worried about other people sympathizing with the plight of Palestinians and that to me is worth respecting
 
Don’t remember Ukraine attacking Russia first. If they had, the support wouldn’t be so strong. Israel are only defending themselves and their future. Not that I’m taking any sides. Both Palestina and Israel can burn to the ground for all I care.
Get a grip man. You believe everything the media reports. Theres not even a point debating with you types. Respect to lamine.
 
Back
Top