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La Liga 25/26
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Kroos played in their last CL win. Kroos and/or Modric weren't actually the dominating type. They didn't even dominate AM in 2016 final and lost possession vs them. But their quality in midfield showed and mattered a lot.
Indeed but Real were not dominating the ball in that game and Dotmund were the better team for large parts.
Same with Liverpool final where even more dominated in general play.
Kroos wasnt the same player but better than having nothing like that kind of player as after he left.
Indeed but Real were not dominating the ball in that game and Dotmund were the better team for large parts.
Kroos wasnt the same player but better than having nothing like that kind of player as after he left.
Yes, but I'm telling you that dominating possession was never a trademark of this Madrid vs quality opposition. Not even under Zidane days. They were never that team.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Yes, but I'm telling you that dominating possession was never a trademark of this Madrid vs quality opposition. Not even under Zidane days. They were never that team.
Its not so much about dominating ball for sake of it but being better team if give it up as saw in past with the best Real sides.
The Real side v Dortmund had no real control and being out played for large spells and Kroos etc wasnt doing what did in younger years.
They were largely same in both runs when won it after Ronaldo left.
Its not so much about dominating ball for sake of it but being better team if give it up as saw in past with the best Real sides.
The Real side v Dortmund had no real control and being out played for large spells and Kroos etc wasnt doing what did in younger years.
They were largely same in both runs when won it after Ronaldo left.
Better team is not something Madrid prioritize, much more of a direct team on transitions. Not even before Ronaldo left. With Ronaldo in 2018, the style was quite similar to the post-Ronaldo Madrid.
2016, 2018, those were still very much cagey CL wins with up and down games, and Madrid killing opponents on transitions. I don't see much difference between those wins in 2016, 2018 and the ones from 2022 and 2024 for example. 2017 yes, probably the peak of Florentino Perez Madrid.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Kroos and Modric were never about Real looking for 80% possession for sake of it.
Real at their peak were the best counter attacking side in world but that only works when very good in posession also or teams would just sit deep and allow them to have ball.
This has all been discussed in past but the best Barca ever and Real in last 20 years have been up there as best in world in possession and on break or very close to best at both.
Barca leaned more on possession while Real would go earlier for counter but being top at both is what opens it up.
Real at their peak were the best counter attacking side in world but that only works when very good in posession also or teams would just sit deep and allow them to have ball.
This has all been discussed in past but the best Barca ever and Real in last 20 years have been up there as best in world in possession and on break or very close to best at both.
Barca leaned more on possession while Real would go earlier for counter but being top at both is what opens it up.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Better team is not something Madrid prioritize, much more of a direct team on transitions. Not even before Ronaldo left. With Ronaldo in 2018, the style was quite similar to the post-Ronaldo Madrid.
2016, 2018, those were still very much cagey CL wins with up and down games, and Madrid killing opponents on transitions.
Real beat Liverpool in 2018 with 68% of the ball.
The point is top teams being versatile enough to control game whether on break or with ball.
Real since Ronaldo left were very different and more chaotic games and fairly fortunate games to come through.
It is why they have also taken some bad beatings in those years compared to winning three in a row.
Real beat Liverpool in 2018 with 68% of the ball.
The point is top teams being versatile enough to control game whether on break or with ball.
Real since Ronaldo left were very different and more chaotic games and fairly fortunate games to come through.
Yes, and went 0-3 vs Juventus at home, until a pen in the last minute. Very similar to Chelsea in 2022. Liverpool in 2022 was considerably stronger than the 2018 side. In 2016 they had less possession in the CL final than Atletico Madrid. Should have lost that final really and had a lot of luck, with the offside goal, Atletico missed penalty.
I just don't think you can split Madrid wins in a dominating-era and non-dominating-era. All of them bar 2017 maybe involved up and down games, and relied a lot on the quality of the players to mark the difference.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Yes, and went 0-3 vs Juventus at home, until a pen in the last minute. Very similar to Chelsea in 2022. Liverpool in 2022 was considerably stronger than the 2018 side.
What does that refute?
Real at their best could dominate with ball and on break which is what made them so dominant in CL.
Every team that wins it will have close calls.. Barca under Pep had them.
Same as Barca at their very best have been dominant on both side.
What does that refute?
Real at their best could dominate with ball and on break which is what made them so dominant in CL.
Every team that wins it will have close calls.. Barca under Pep had them.
Same as Barca at their very best have been dominant on both side.
And they did that post-Ronaldo also. Had 57% possession vs Bayern at home in 2024 semifinal. 17 - 10 shots, how is that not dominating?
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Who has said Real were shit in every game post Ronaldo or never had more of ball?
That was not a top Bayern team either. They didnt even win their domestic league.
That was not a top Bayern team either. They didnt even win their domestic league.
Who has said Real were shit in every game post Ronaldo or never had more of ball?
That was not a top Bayern team either. They didnt even win their domestic league.
You try to construct this difference in play style in Madrid and split it on periods, but it's just not there overall (or certainly not as prominent as you make it). Most of their CL wins were achieved the same way. Close ties, up and down, splitting periods where they were dominated, sometimes heavily, with periods they dominated sides also.
The constant component in all their CL wins were elite players in key positions constantly showing up for big games and marking the difference. That and knowing to make the most out of their good periods in the game. When they pushed hard, they got the goals they needed at the right time, usually late in games. Oh, and they also knew how to punish errors like no other team.
Once those marquee players retired, left, or aged a lot, and the replacement are of much lower quality, that impact, call it the winning-gene of Madrid or whatever, has wore off.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
No they were not the same at all.
Real were far more dominant side prior period and had more control of ties.
Real getting 52% posession in a tie v a Bayern side that lost league to Leverkusen doesnt change anything.
You ignore also all the thrashing Real have taken since then due to the difference in control they had.
Real were far more dominant side prior period and had more control of ties.
Real getting 52% posession in a tie v a Bayern side that lost league to Leverkusen doesnt change anything.
You ignore also all the thrashing Real have taken since then due to the difference in control they had.
There isn't much of a change in style, but there is a change in personnel as I told you. You get worse when you lose players like Marcelo, Ramos, Casemiro, Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, now Carvajal.
That's my entire point. They largely play the same way, but are less successful because some players are special and can't be replaced.
That's my entire point. They largely play the same way, but are less successful because some players are special and can't be replaced.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
There has been a massive change of style and control of games.
Can see that in their wins and the defeats in way they won and lost
Far far less control and dont like to use word but some unbelievably 'lucky' wins when outplayed and some hammerings since 2018 when didnt win in that way.
Can see that in their wins and the defeats in way they won and lost
Far far less control and dont like to use word but some unbelievably 'lucky' wins when outplayed and some hammerings since 2018 when didnt win in that way.
Not really. I remember in 2017. Ronaldo had a superb game in the first leg, he scored a hat-trick IIRC and they won 3-0 in the semifinal. That was peak Madrid.
In the return leg, Atletico had them on the ropes, 2-0 up after 16 mins or so. AM were owning them and Madrid were barely holding on. Then Benzema had a crazy action near the sideline vs Savic I think, and Madrid escaped by scoring that key away goal that deflated AM and broke their spirit. That bit of magic from Benzema killed a tie that could have gotten complicated for them.
That's what Madrid always had in the past, and not so much these days. Players who would show up in difficult moments and swing the tie around in their favor. In this sense, Mbappe is a complete letdown for them. Incomparable to the influence and clutch quality of players like Ronaldo and even Benzema in the past.
Madrid was about as strong as the individual class of their players. When the quality was soaring high, they killed off teams who didn't have such individual quality. Once that declined, they struggle. Simple as that. They were never a dominating side on a collective level. That's why their record vs Barcelona wasn't favorable even in their peak days.
In the return leg, Atletico had them on the ropes, 2-0 up after 16 mins or so. AM were owning them and Madrid were barely holding on. Then Benzema had a crazy action near the sideline vs Savic I think, and Madrid escaped by scoring that key away goal that deflated AM and broke their spirit. That bit of magic from Benzema killed a tie that could have gotten complicated for them.
That's what Madrid always had in the past, and not so much these days. Players who would show up in difficult moments and swing the tie around in their favor. In this sense, Mbappe is a complete letdown for them. Incomparable to the influence and clutch quality of players like Ronaldo and even Benzema in the past.
Madrid was about as strong as the individual class of their players. When the quality was soaring high, they killed off teams who didn't have such individual quality. Once that declined, they struggle. Simple as that. They were never a dominating side on a collective level. That's why their record vs Barcelona wasn't favorable even in their peak days.
JamDav1982
Well-known member
Real since Ronaldo left have gone out in below.
Ajax 5-3
Man City 4-2
Chelsea 3-1
City 5-1
Arsenal 5-1
Bayern could add to that this season....
That added to way they have won games when probably never seen a side be as out played and win and it isnt a surprise.
They have nowhere near the same control and as said all teams have had ties been close in.
That doesnt mean they dominated every single game and tie when they did win in past but across board far far more control and winning by design.
Ajax 5-3
Man City 4-2
Chelsea 3-1
City 5-1
Arsenal 5-1
Bayern could add to that this season....
That added to way they have won games when probably never seen a side be as out played and win and it isnt a surprise.
They have nowhere near the same control and as said all teams have had ties been close in.
That doesnt mean they dominated every single game and tie when they did win in past but across board far far more control and winning by design.
Real since Ronaldo left have gone out in below.
Ajax 5-3
Man City 4-2
Chelsea 3-1
City 5-1
Arsenal 5-1
Bayern could add to that this season....
That added to way they have won games when probably never seen a side be as out played and win and it isnt a surprise.
Many more players from the old guard left or declined, not just Ronaldo.