Paganinisrvnge
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Messi
10 - Lionel Messi - v2
- Thread starter Barcaman
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J
jiopi
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Not particularly awe inspiring stuff is it?
Debate over Messi's record unearths a photo and a legend
Good article from Sid Lowe http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20121213/lionel-messi-godfrey-chitalu/#ixzz2Exs1Tqhm
Good article from Sid Lowe http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20121213/lionel-messi-godfrey-chitalu/#ixzz2Exs1Tqhm
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beautifulgame
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Pretty awesome finishing to be frank.
J
jiopi
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Finishing yes, overall quality, not so much. Put Messi in position of Müller and he would score 99% of his goals, do it other way around, and Müller would not break 50% barrier.
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beautifulgame
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obviously, but that doesn't mean much. muller was an awesome goalscorer but of course messi is another universe. congrats.
Paganinisrvnge
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Nice article. You still have to take into account that it was the Zambian League. There's a reason the golden boot assigns leagues certain amounts of points to goals scored in certain leagues.
lessthanjake
New member
Right, but penalties are a totally different thing IMO. A normal goal, even a tap in against a 2nd division team, takes high quality (even for a tap-in, it takes high quality to be at the right place at the right time). When someone scores a goal in open play, they have done something really well to get that goal. By contrast, when someone makes a penalty, they have not done something great; instead they have just avoided failing. I agree, though, that it's different if the player himself has drawn the penalty.
Muller's goals are not high quality in a lot of ways. He is not highly technical and did not score solo goals. However, he was absurdly accurate and the best ever at being at the right place at the right time. When you watch his goals, it's easy to think "Okay...any striker would have scored that easy chance" but that ignores the fact that he got himself in the position to have an easy chance far more than anyone in history ever has. The correct response is to think "Very few other strikers would have been there at that moment." This is a skill that Messi has gotten a lot better at recently IMO. Messi gets a lot more easy goals these days. He has also gotten more accurate with his shots. In my mind, Messi's jump in goalscoring the last year and a half has been largely due to getting more Muller-esque goals, and I think those goals take a lot of quality too.
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jiopi
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Yeah, I agree that his type of goals take positional awareness as a quality, and I agree that more of Messi's goals nowadays are Müller-esque. He scores more, but in relation not with same amount of more of individual effort. He still scores those individual goals, but he has added that poacher/striker kind of stuff with it. And he has also included free kicks now, scoring 7, which is easily the most in 2012 I think. He has developed into a all-around scorer, maybe never seen before.
What next, 40 yard screamers?
What next, 40 yard screamers?
Jaguar
Flair Trait
He prefers to run with the ball, I don't think I have ever seen him shoot from a great distance before. but one day, who knows. I wonder if he has the patience to learn the knuckle ball technique though
raskolnikov
Well-known member
Gerd Müller is arguably the greatest poacher ever, messi is more a mix of the best of Maradona,Müller and Michael Laudrup.
He is obviously on another level but that doesnt mean Müller was a bad player or not worthy of that record.
This isnt the golden shoe, it cones down to goals, if in 2059 a player scores 95 times in the Latvian league including 60 penalties then he will be the fair recordholder, same way Messi is currently.
He is obviously on another level but that doesnt mean Müller was a bad player or not worthy of that record.
This isnt the golden shoe, it cones down to goals, if in 2059 a player scores 95 times in the Latvian league including 60 penalties then he will be the fair recordholder, same way Messi is currently.
lessthanjake
New member
At this point, it's really the only thing missing from his repertoire. Messi gets solo goals after dribbles, goals where he beats the offside trap and outpaces the opposing CBs, poacher goals based on superior positioning, pinpoint accurate shots where he gets the ball in traffic and somehow places it past everyone, and free kick goals. The last three are relatively new for him (or at least, he gets them with a lot more regularity than he did a couple years ago).
The only thing really missing is consistent long range shooting. He can definitely whip in well hit shots from just outside the box, but not from well outside the box. I'm not sure it's a skill he will ever get, though. Not because he isn't capable. It doesn't take immense quality to be solid at those, and Messi has certainly shown that he can hit the ball ferociously. However, shots from way outside the box go against the Barcelona possession game. They'd rather keep the ball and work it up for a chance in the box than take a shot from way out that will likely miss and lose them possession. So I think he will never be encouraged to add this skill and practice it.
I think that's okay, though. IMO long range shots are not effective. They make for great highlights, but >95% of the time, they are just a low percentage play that wasted possession.
Similarly, I suppose, Messi is missing header goals. In fairness to him, he actually is an accurate header when he actually gets his head on the ball. However, he's obviously quite short and Barca doesn't really float in crosses that often. I will point out, though, that height is not everything with headers. Gerd Muller is only 5 foot 9, Pele was 5 foot 8, and Radamel Falcao is 5 foot 10. These guys are/were all really great at getting headers despite only being slightly taller than Messi (who, I believe, is 5 foot 7). I think Messi's leaping ability is not quite there with these guys.
M
Malappapper
Guest
The defending is atrocious at the very least.
raskolnikov
Well-known member
If you want to clutch at straws the onle things Leo is average at is long range shots ( by choice) and penalties.
He is decent at heading, not great like falcao but still decent considering his height.
One goal I would like to see as a fan in the future is a bicycle kick, he hasnt scored yet with one.
He is decent at heading, not great like falcao but still decent considering his height.
One goal I would like to see as a fan in the future is a bicycle kick, he hasnt scored yet with one.
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Paganinisrvnge
New member
Messi isn't even average at penalties. Ronaldo is just better at them so people blow it out of proportion. Messi's one big miss(against Chelsea) was a matter of maybe 2 or 3 inches. It actually was really well taken and Cech would have had no chance if had been a tiny bit lower. Luck just wasn't on our side. As for long shots, it astonishes me when Ronaldo fans try to make it seem like long shots are such an important attribute. I am sure if Messi took 10 shots from 5 yards outside the box every match, he would score some of them but he is too busy using his superior dribbling, passing, and close range finishing to lead Barcelona to victory.
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