10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Lomar1o]

I can't remember one huge game we played really really bad and won it because of Messi. He was decisive all the time, but only in a healthy team. He is at his best when he is happy.

what about ronaldo? i'm sure cr hasn't won a game when his team was utter sh**. but messi is more of a game changer than ronaldo ever was or will be. when barca is beasting messi is hugely involved, when real is beasting ronaldo is playing the worst most of the time, still manages tap-ins tho'. lol.

 

[serghei]

what about ronaldo? i'm sure cr hasn't won a game when his team was utter sh**. but messi is more of a game changer than ronaldo ever was or will be. when barca is beasting messi is hugely involved, when real is beasting ronaldo is playing the worst most of the time, still manages tap-ins tho'. lol.

Exactly. Goes on to prove Messi and Ronaldo are dependent on their teammates. All this GOAT thing is rubbish. You fix the whole and the parts start working. Messi is a game changer, but not if you give the ball to him and tell him to do magic. He can't do that now. He is a game changer if you don't treat him like one.

 

[messi2140]

What about when tito was our manager , messi won us the la liga

 

[serghei]

What about when tito was our manager , messi won us the la liga

That kind of tactic was doomed to last very little, you can't sustain that level for more than 6-7 months. Messi got injured later on and we finnished the season on our knees. That intense rythm hurt him in the long run.

 

[Mitchell1978]

What some people don't realise here is that workrate and off the ball movement are key components of the football played today. Nobody asks Messi to be the kind of player that runs 12km per game, but Ronaldo has the edge at the moment (and you can dissagree with me on this of course) because he has a better (for sports), more competitive mentality/personality. The man lives for records, rivalries and stardom, unlike Messi, who's an introvert.

What nonsense, theres no relation between being an introvert and being competitive. In fact its probably more likely for an introvert to be egocentric and focus more on himself and personal achievements then team achievements.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I don't remember ever talking about any other site. I've criticized Ronaldo a number of times on this forum itself and I've never hidden that I am a Ronaldo fan. I have to talk about Messi because I keep seeing excuses given for him over and over again, excuses that I think are completely unwarranted. And (obviously) I dont see any excuses given for Ronaldo, which is why I never have to talk about it. Another reason, as Ghost mentioned, is simply the expectations from Messi. Here's a reddit comment that perfectly sums up what I think of Messi nowadays.

So you are officially out of the closet as a Ronaldo fan, footy?

Even though I pretty much agree with that reddit comment you posted, but as a Ronaldo fan of course your intent/agenda/perspectives on Messi are far from being objective. Now I understand why you came out every single time you did.

 

[serghei]

What nonsense, theres no relation between being an introvert and being competitive. In fact its probably more likely for an introvert to be egocentric and focus more on himself and personal achievements then team achievements.

Of course it is a relation between a person's personality and how that persons manifests and reacts to stress. There are many studies on this, if you chose to dismiss them it's fine by me.

 

[gatsu]

Mentality is a key factor, but how can we know if Messi lacks ambition or if he is not concerned about individual achievements, Messi has never been very expressive unlike Ronaldo, though the last 20 min against Ajax tells a lot.

Ronaldo scores a lot lately, well the best midfield quantitatively and qualitatively is supporting him.

 

[Luftstalag14]

What some people don't realise here is that workrate and off the ball movement are key components of the football played today. Nobody asks Messi to be the kind of player that runs 12km per game, but Ronaldo has the edge at the moment (and you can dissagree with me on this of course) because he has a better (for sports), more competitive mentality/personality. The man lives for records, rivalries and stardom, unlike Messi, who's an introvert. Ronaldo can motivate himself, and that motivation comes from his selfish nature, he wants to be the best, he wants to be seen above other players. Messi doesn't care about that sort of thing. He is not able to motivate himself to the degree Ronaldo is precisely because of his sensitive nature. He can't turn anger into productiveness.

For a competitive sport like football, Ronaldo has the ultimate mentality. Messi is more talented, has more genius in him, has the better vision by far, and can do things with the ball that can make your jaw drop.

We all want Messi to turn things around on his own, but he isn't and wasn't that kind of player. Ever. I can't remember one huge game we played really really bad and won it because of Messi. He was decisive all the time, but only in a healthy team. He is at his best when he is happy. His form and productiveness are in tight connection with the team. That is why Messi should not be a particular case. Bring back the harmony and cohesiveness iside the team, and you will see the old Messi back.

Well said, +1000, serghei.

Messi's personality makes him who he is. He is just the opposite of Ronaldo.

I wonder what Messi's type is, in terms of Myers Brigges Test?

 

[Luftstalag14]

What nonsense, theres no relation between being an introvert and being competitive. In fact its probably more likely for an introvert to be egocentric and focus more on himself and personal achievements then team achievements.

This is your hunch or a substantiated fact?

I very much doubt that it is true.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Ursegor, I agreed with a lot of what you have posted. So what is your conclusion, what is the punch line?

 

[gatsu]

And what's Messi's personality, i'm curious.

 

[serghei]

And what's Messi's personality, i'm curious.

The opposite of Ronaldo.

 

[gatsu]

In term of what? Ambition, Motivation, selfishness,...
And how can you evaluate his personality knowing that he is not the expressive type, it's a very subjective and hazy concept to be used as credible argument.

 

[footyfan]

To be honest I have never grasped this view point. If you take a great player and put him in a lesser team then naturally he will not perform as well, and that is the case with Messi. That Pep team had all the right ingredients and became arguably the best side in the last 2 decades. You don't just take out Pep and all those other ingredients and then expect Messi to perform at that same level.

It's because Messi was the best in the world on so many levels, not only on individual skill (best finishing, best passing, best dribbling) but also on team play (combining with team-mates, build-up play, defending from the front, positioning etc.) No one is faulting Messi for not making a gazillion 1-2s and tapping the ball in from 2 yards, for not participating in the build up (there isnt any at Barca atm), not even for not defending from the front nowadays or off-the-ball movement (I was very vocal about that last season but after watching the World Cup and seeing how he couldn't run even after wanting the trophy so much, I'm convinced it has nothing to do with motivation and that he just can't run anymore).

His core skills, on the other hand, also seemed to have declined (pass accuracy, finishing, and while his dribbling has been on point this season he's also having much more unsuccessful dribbles but mostly the killer instinct that meant he would place himself in the best position to get a goal) that have nothing to do with Pep or the team around him.

So you are officially out of the closet as a Ronaldo fan, footy?

Even though I pretty much agree with that reddit comment you posted, but as a Ronaldo fan of course your intent/agenda/perspectives on Messi are far from being objective. Now I understand why you came out every single time you did.

I have no malicious intent besides being frustrated by reading excuses for him. I'm a Messi fan too so it hurts to see him play below his potential.