8 - Pedri

[serghei]

Dude.. they kind of are still kids, Gavi at least. Not saying he'll be a world beater but people should cut them some slack, we are expecting too much of them.

I agree with you on that 4231 double pivot though, would put Frenkie in his best position + Raph and Dembouz can play at the same time. Seems like a no brainer.

OK, so why the hell are fans moaning about results then?

You can't have it both ways. If they are kids and we should cut them some slack, stop moaning about results right now. And stop overrating them. We are basically and effectively downgraded to Spanish Dortmund.

 

[serghei]

Part of the reason they are playing poorly is because everyone expects them to grow in record time. Kids don't do well under major stress. You need maturity to respond well to that sort of stuff.

 

[Givenchy]

OK, so why the hell are fans moaning about results then?

You can't have it both ways. If they are kids and we should cut them some slack, stop moaning about results right now. And stop overrating them. We are basically and effectively downgraded to Spanish Dortmund.

You can cut the players some slack whilst still complaining about results, it's not either or.

Most complaints are about the CL performances and sure we got unlucky with the CB crisis but Xavi being inexperienced and stubborn also played a huge part. Barca are in an identity crisis right now. Are we challenging or are we rebuilding?

If we hadn't spent big in the summer whilst giving the youngsters and Xavi time to grow I would say we are rebuilding and that is fair, expectations are lowered but Laporta had other ideas and Xavi made demands. You don't buy the likes of Lewa + financial risks to exit CL group stages.

Still the biggest issue is Busquets continuing to play an important role which still won't be addressed.

 

[MTL_Barca]

OK, so why the hell are fans moaning about results then?

You can't have it both ways. If they are kids and we should cut them some slack, stop moaning about results right now. And stop overrating them. We are basically and effectively downgraded to Spanish Dortmund.

It's not like these two things can't both be justified. Pedri and Gavi are super young. They can play another 3 woofld cups in their prime age. Nobody should expect them to carry Barca/Spains midfield, i mean how many 18-20 year old world class CMs are there? Or were in recent years?

That being said though the fact that Barca (and due to Luchos selection Spain as well) rely on them together + the dinosaur behind is definitely something that can be criticized.

Developing young players is one thing, but you have to get the stuff around them right.

 

[JamDav1982]

OK, so why the hell are fans moaning about results then?

You can't have it both ways. If they are kids and we should cut them some slack, stop moaning about results right now. And stop overrating them. We are basically and effectively downgraded to Spanish Dortmund.

They are not the only players in the team and likes of Gavi/Busquets were being picked ahead of FDJ in Europa League and in CL exits.

 

[JamDav1982]

Part of the reason they are playing poorly is because everyone expects them to grow in record time. Kids don't do well under major stress. You need maturity to respond well to that sort of stuff.

Eh? You are the one that claims Pedri is 'slow and frail' and Gavi will go on to be better than him..now saying it is about how young they are.

Pedri has already shown a very high level and can improve further.

Pedri was best mid at last Euros...no 'major stress' there? Playing for Barca at 17 in a Classico having just moved to club is not 'major stress'? Just nonsense.

If anything it is admirable how much Pedri has taken to top level football at such a young age and NOT been 'stressed' by it.

Pedri didnt play poorly in world cup and hasnt been playing poorly for Barca this season either. He has been one of Barcas better players.

He is more than good enough for level Barca are aiming to be at now.. it is just more excuses to make out Xavi doesnt have players ready for first team level at Barca.

From some of the shit in midfield you have drooled over when others had them in their squad to now claiming Pedris is too young and cant cope with stresses of it is textbook drivel and for obvious reasons.

 

[fergus90]

Pedri is already a great player. His one major flaw is refusing to shoot in great positions but hopefully that will change. He will be a cornerstone for Spain and Barca for years to come, he?s got everything you wanted in a central midfield player.

It?s Gavi, whom I rate highly but is still a long way off.

 

[Kul_z]

If messi stayed pedri would evolve massively, its not coincidence that his rapid growth kinda stagnated with messi's departure

 

[Messi983]

You can cut the players some slack whilst still complaining about results, it's not either or.

Most complaints are about the CL performances and sure we got unlucky with the CB crisis but Xavi being inexperienced and stubborn also played a huge part. Barca are in an identity crisis right now. Are we challenging or are we rebuilding?

If we hadn't spent big in the summer whilst giving the youngsters and Xavi time to grow I would say we are rebuilding and that is fair, expectations are lowered but Laporta had other ideas and Xavi made demands. You don't buy the likes of Lewa + financial risks to exit CL group stages.

Still the biggest issue is Busquets continuing to play an important role which still won't be addressed.

I think we're doing both. Barca is too big club to ever publicly admit we're rebuilding and won't compete for 2-3 years (after already not winning La Liga in last 3 years which looks like an eternity after we were used to win it almost every season for the last 10-15 years).

We will probably challenge Madrid for La Liga until the end and possibly win it which would be massive imo. I know people downgrade La Liga (I'm not one of them and have always rated LL) but would at least show we're on the right track. It's clear we won't be competitive in Europe as long as the ancient one is a starter though. There are ofc other holes in the team (like RB) as well but he's by far the biggest problem. Regardless of who we'll replace him with will be addition with substraction imo.

Consciously rebuilding would risk more than just losing some CL money (which is ofc important). We've already lost sponsors during Covid and more "fans" (or gloryhunters better said, true fans will stick with the club in good and bad) have left with Messi and are now supporting PSG or City or whoever (no doubt they'll come back once those clubs are shit and we're on the top again). And if we continue to struggle for 2-3 more years surely more will leave. Only winning trophies will keep (and bring new) fans. The same with sponsors. Barca will always be a massive club attractive to sponsors but it's a lot easier to get money to the club when you're successful.

That's why I understood why Laporta did what he did with levers even if he mortgaged club's longterm future. Not only next 2-3 years but next two decades if not more.

With Messi gone we needed a new star like Lewy. Ofc nowhere near as marketable as Messi (almost as important for current team as Messi was for the past teams though) but probably the best we could afford as we just can't compete to sign younger stars like Haaland or Mbappe. Not financially nor they're interested to come here right now. Attendance at Camp Nou has gone up at start of the season even playing mostly against bottom table teams. People were excited to see this "new team". Ofc some of that excitement already went through the window after another early CL exit and now this unfortunate timing of the WC (That could also play in our favour though because people who don't care for international football at all (I'm definitely one of them) will be anxious to watch "their" teams again.) but hopefully fans will continue to visit home games and support the team.

 

[JamDav1982]

Pedri is already a great player. His one major flaw is refusing to shoot in great positions but hopefully that will change. He will be a cornerstone for Spain and Barca for years to come, he?s got everything you wanted in a central midfield player.

It?s Gavi, whom I rate highly but is still a long way off.

For me Pedri is a lot better than Gavi currently.

Gavi doesnt pass ball as well or have the same range/quality of passing but is still young and learning.

Pedri at 18 was a far better player.

But this idea by likes of BBZ that Pedri is similar to Arthur in areas such as rang/creativiy of passing iand defensively is utter nonsense.

Using Arthurs last la liga season at Barca and Pedri this season below there is no comparison. Added Xavi and Iniesta in peak 10/11 season also for reference....but there will be some mental gymnastics based essay to comment on below.

Key Passes -
Pedri - 1.4 (2.3x as many as Arthur)
Arthur - 0.6
Xavi - 2.5
Iniesta 1.6

Long Balls..
Pedri 5.4 (Best in team other than MATS and three times more than Arthur)
Arthur 1.9
Xavi 7.4
Iniesta 4.2

Through balls..
Pedri 0.5 (Five times as many as Arthur.. and best in team currently).
Arthur 0.1
Xavi 0.8
Iniesta 0.6


Shots Per Game..
Pedri 0.7 (80% more than Arthur)
Arthur 0.4
Xavi 1.1
Iniesta 1.3

DEFENSIVELY

Tackles..
Pedri 1.4 (Twice as man as Arthur)
Arthur 0.7
Xavi 1.0
Iniesta 1.5

Interceptions
Pedri 0.6 (Three times as many as Arthur)
Arthur 0.2
Xavi 1.0
Iniesta 1.5

 

[BBZ8800]

Oh the irony.

I literally posted the same stats for Arthur since his first match here and always claimed that he is an absolute disgrace of a player and way worse, than let's say hated Rakitic or Vidal, but I was insulted for 2 years.
Arthur's was forum's favorite and a ray of hope in the first 2 years, called as an idiot, how I don't understand Barca and football.
The same as Pedri/Gavi now.
It is hardest to open your eyes regarding supposed cornerstones of future Barca.
Look how long it took people to realize the true level of Arthur, Frenkie, Dembele etc.

So let's pretend that Pedri is very good.
You guys will realize the truth eventually.

As always.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Oh the irony.

I literally posted the same stats for Arthur since his first match here and always claimed that he is an absolute disgrace of a player and way worse, than let's say hated Rakitic or Vidal, but I was insulted for 2 years.
Arthur's was forum's favorite and a ray of hope in the first 2 years, called as an idiot, how I don't understand Barca and football.
The same as Pedri/Gavi now.
It is hardest to open your eyes regarding supposed cornerstones of future Barca.
Look how long it took people to realize the true level of Arthur, Frenkie, Dembele etc.

So let's pretend that Pedri is very good.
You guys will realize the truth eventually.

As always.

So you identify Pedri as weak point? Pedri is what's holding us back? Replacing Pedri should be a priority? We would be better without Pedri? Anything of that true?

It's easy to shit on everyone, as long as you avoid any commitment.

We rely on a dinosaur, can't defend, we got fucking Bellerin and Alonso to help with fullback situation, don't really have a proper LW...but yeah sure it's Pedri who is the problem. And even younger Gavi.

As always, the problem is that we fucked up for years and ended up with kids in the midfield. If we didn't buy shit attackers for 400M and think of Busi as the best DM in the world we could easily see Pedri and Gavi "only" as young talents in a world class squad right now, instead of relying on them.

Pedri was on of the beast deals ever, Gavi is from la masia...they are incredibly young. There is really nothing to complain about there besides us throwing them into a shit team. We got super lucky with both of them, otherwise we'd probably play Roberto right now

 

[serghei]

I'm not the one moaning about being kicked out of CL. It was always gonna be very close duel with Inter and it was, decided by small details like most of our injuries being in the same compartment, and some terrible refereeing vs Bayern and Inter away.

It just seems to me that our fans aren't being realistic here and try to find scapegoats uselessly. If you want to find the real culprit of this shit, that's the previous board.

Obviously Xavi and Laporta aren't perfect by all means, but the situation they inherited was catastrophic, and I don't think most fans fully understand that, or if they do, they are unable to accept. Most, me included, became fans because Barca was a constant source of entertainment and that's about it, and suddenly now that is not a given anymore.

In general terms, our situation is not that desperate. But in the minds of our fanbase, it's a disaster, they can't handle it.

The only truly surprising thing this season is us being the league leaders ahead of Madrid. And it's a positive surprise. So excuse me if I am more annoyed by some of the fans around here than on Laporta, Xavi, or somebody else.

Some thought that's it, we activate some levers and we're back, the shit of the last 4-5 years is gonna be erased. In reality the club is 2nd best in Spain, and CL QF material at best in normal conditions. That's pretty good.

Last year at this time, we were hoping for top 4, this season we are neck and neck with Madrid for the title.

 

[serghei]

So you identify Pedri as weak point? Pedri is what's holding us back? Replacing Pedri should be a priority? We would be better without Pedri? Anything of that true?

It's easy to shit on everyone, as long as you avoid any commitment.

We rely on a dinosaur, can't defend, wd hot fucking Bellerin and Alonso to help with fullback situation, don't really have a proper LW...but yeah sure it's Pedri who is the problem. And even younger Gavi.

As always, the problem is that we fucked up for years and ended up with kids in the midfield. If we didn't buy shit attackers for 400M and think of Busi as the best DM in the world we could easily see Pedri and Gavi "only" as young talents in a world class squad right, instead of relying on them.

Pedri was on of the beast deals ever, Gavi is from la masia...they are incredibly young. There is really nothing to complain about there besides us throwing them into a shit team. We got super lucky with both of them, otherwise we'd probably play Roberto right now

Pedri is not holding us back, the mentality of the club is. They already think at Barca that Pedri is top 5 midfielders in the world, and in reality, there are 20 better than him easily.

He's a good player. If he improves, he has a chance of being great. At any top team he'd be a sub. At Barca and Spain he is no1 star almost because they have fallen big time from the top 4-5 teams out there, both at club level and NT level.

That is not Pedri's fault of course. But fans have to stop blowing smoke up his ass. He was one of the worst players from Spain in Qatar. He hasn't improved one bit in the last 2 years. At this rate, he's not gonna become that good.

 

[JamDav1982]

Oh the irony.

I literally posted the same stats for Arthur since his first match here and always claimed that he is an absolute disgrace of a player and way worse, than let's say hated Rakitic or Vidal, but I was insulted for 2 years.
Arthur's was forum's favorite and a ray of hope in the first 2 years, called as an idiot, how I don't understand Barca and football.
The same as Pedri/Gavi now.
It is hardest to open your eyes regarding supposed cornerstones of future Barca.
Look how long it took people to realize the true level of Arthur, Frenkie, Dembele etc.

So let's pretend that Pedri is very good.
You guys will realize the truth eventually.

As always.

Oh the irony.. I literally just posted stats to show how much shite you talk about Arthur and Pedri being similar players.. which they are not at all.

So what is it? Were you right on the Arthur stats but wont accept same stats to show Pedri is better... oh the irony indeed.

What 'stats' are you clalming you posted for Arthur that is relevant here? The stats Pedri shows to be a lot better on? Those same stats?

Stats prove you completely wrong..now its 'use your eyes'.

Ah slam FDJ and Pedri while you claimed Mingueza, Coutinho and Braithwaite were your kind of players and ones to build on.. so stop using the fact you didnt like Arthur as some kind of evidence you get these things right.

You fucking thought Neymar didnt fit and wouldnt be missed. Utterly clueless.

Arthur was shit. Bringing him up has no relevance. He is completely differnt player.. here are the comparisons again...


Key Passes -
Pedri - 1.4 (2.3x as many as Arthur)
Arthur - 0.6
Xavi - 2.5
Iniesta 1.6

Long Balls..
Pedri 5.4 (Best in team other than MATS and three times more than Arthur)
Arthur 1.9
Xavi 7.4
Iniesta 4.2

Through balls..
Pedri 0.5 (Five times as many as Arthur.. and best in team currently).
Arthur 0.1
Xavi 0.8
Iniesta 0.6


Shots Per Game..
Pedri 0.7 (80% more than Arthur)
Arthur 0.4
Xavi 1.1
Iniesta 1.3

DEFENSIVELY

Tackles..
Pedri 1.4 (Twice as man as Arthur)
Arthur 0.7
Xavi 1.0
Iniesta 1.5

Interceptions
Pedri 0.6 (Three times as many as Arthur)
Arthur 0.2
Xavi 1.0
Iniesta 1.5