8 - Pedri

[JamDav1982]

Our youth players according to Whoscored stats.

World cup matches with Germany, Japan and Morocco:
Pedri: 301 minutes, 2 key passes, 0 shots
Gavi: 197 minutes, 0 key passes, 0 shots, 428 random fouls on everyone

500 minutes combined, 2 key passes (1 pass in 250 minutes, which is around 1 pass in 3 matches) and 0 shots.
Looks promising, we should build a team around these two.

Since Pedri is our leader, we managed to break the record of 2 consecutive CL group stage KOs with one of the most expensive squads in the world.

Stop spouting nonsense.

Barca were in turmoil at start of last season and Pedri played 2 of the 6 CL Group games having not had a pre season of any note.

He was not Barcas 'leader' and Barca did not have anything like one of most expensive squads in world during last years CL... they were probably one of the teams that had cut back financially more than any other and just lost bets player.

This season it was small margins and referee errors as well as Busi giving away goals near enough every game.. that is not on Pedri.

Lets see if you still call Pedri the 'leader' if Barca win the league.

Barcas best midfielder is FDJ anyway.

Gavi was not good. Pedri was one of the best players on the park v Germany and has been one of Spains better two in other game.

Spain have massive issues of getting ball through defence to midfield as Busi cant move... if you actually watch the games they were using Pedri back in the DM area a lot of time to try and cover that. In the game yesterday he was more or less at LB area a lot of the time.

When pointing to '2 key passes in 3 games' lets rememeber likes of Modric whos name often gets brought up made 3 in the last 3 games and against probably worse teams. Like Pedri.. it depends on what they are being asked to do in the team.

 

[BBZ8800]

When pointing to '2 key passes in 3 games' lets rememeber likes of Modric whos name often gets brought up made 3 in the last 3 games and against probably worse teams. Like Pedri.. it depends on what they are being asked to do in the team.

Pedri has Arthur's DNA, but slightly better and with less movement and involvement.
These new gen of kid footballers born in late 90s and early 00s were in their football-brain-formative years around 2008-2012 when Spanish/Xavi's football ruled the world.
In 80s kids wanted to dribble like Maradona, in 90s and 00s, young attackers wanted to score and dribble like R9 and Henry, in 2025 or 2030, all kids will be influenced by Messi or by CR7s siu's, freekicks, shitty pre-free kick posture, gestures etc.
The same happened in Barca-influenced areas of the world, mainly Brazil and Spain, where 90% of young kids will be influenced by Del Bosques strikerless 460 football with 6 possession-recycling midfielders on the pitch.

And when you learn/adapt something as a kid, it is hard to un-do it later.
Just look at Neymar, who can never cure himself from clowning and rolling because that's his DNA.
The same as how Arthur's DNA is being a Wallmart version of Xavi. And he hasn't improved one bit in his 5-6 years in Europe.
And Pedri isn't much better either.

It has nothing to do what is coach asking from Pedri.
I have already heard several different commentators on my sport station while watching Barca or Spain commenting something along the lines:
Pedri has the ball. He surely won't shoot and all the opponents know that.
Pedri has the ball, he can shoot. Come on, Pedri, shoot! Oh no, he hasn't shoot again and he looked for a teammate again. I don't remember when was the last time he took a shot.

Look, these people are neutrals, they don't care about Barca or Real, they just comment on matches to get their salary.
But among those neutrals, you can hear all the time some sort of anger and disbelief regarding why does he never shoot.

Sometimes he tries a shot when he forces himself (a coach forced him), but his natural instincts are similar to Arthurs: shield the ball, spin around himself, pass the ball to a close teammate, don't lose possession, don't shoot. Shoot only in a 100% safe situation.

A guy is skinny, short, slow, can't shoot, don't have attacking instincts, can't defend, can't jump, don't have a combative spirit.
There is a reason why Spain won nothing for decades before Xavi-Iniesta.
And then media and fans bought into a story about the system, style of football, and how it can work regardless of out of this world class of Xavi and Iniesta.
Without Xavi and Iniesta, Spanish football is back to R of 16 or 1/4 level.
And their midfielders are back to a level of Sevilla or benchwarmers at Barca/Real who have world class Brazilians or French players as starters.
Pedri is not different to any of that.

When you are mentioning Modric:
Modric: 365 minutes, 3 key passes, 4 shots

Kovacic: 354 minutes, 5 key passes, 2 shots

Brozovic: 391 minutes, 4 key passes, 3 shots

Literally any semi decent midfielder in the world is more direct and tries more passes and shots than Spanish-school of midfielders who grew up watching 460 with 80% of possession and 800 passes per match.
What is worse, he or Gavi are not even that good for that 460 type of football like those guys from the past.

 

[JamDav1982]

Pedri is nothing like Arthur.

Lame comparison.

Usual BBZ nonsense while stanning for Coutinho, Braithwaite etc.

 

[vegitot]

Pedri is nothing like Arthur.

Lame comparison.

He has played quite a bit like Arthur though. And i mean, no risk play from Pedri currently. No dribble, no shot. He has 0 shot in World Cup.

 

[JamDav1982]

He has played quite a bit like Arthur though. And i mean, no risk play from Pedri currently. No dribble, no shot. He has 0 shot in World Cup.

No he hasnt.

Arthur would take touches and make obvious pass with very little creativity or range.

Pedri passes it a lot quicker and more proactive with the ball.

It is a lame comparison.

Pedri would have top teams chasing him if available.. Arthur would never have.

 

[vegitot]

No he hasnt.

Arthur would take touches and make obvious pass with very little creativity or range.

Pedri passes it a lot quicker and more proactive with the ball.

It is a lame comparison.

Pedri would have top teams chasing him if available.. Arthur would never have.

Of course Pedri is much better than Arthur. But this is not what Bbz tries to say.

Pedri is far more creative but this World Cup and recently, i feel that he hasn't tried enough with his pass. Like if there is an obvious chance to make a through ball, he will pass perfectlt. But if opponent doesn't have any opening, he will not try to open it by himself (movement, short pass to form combination or dribble).

 

[BBZ8800]

By the way, Barca is stubborn and emotional and we'll stick to our values and idols till death.
Look at Lucho how he is obsessed with Barca's players and how he is chasing shadows of Xavi-Iniesta-Busi.

The same with Laporta and Xavi, they bought tons of shitty Spanish or former La Masia players. Why? = because only they can (in theory) bring back TikiTaka or Barca's way back.

On the other hand, THERE IS A REASON why Real won 14 CLs and why they won more than us even when we had Messi.
Because they are smarter, less emotional and less obsessed with the past and "their way".
They have figured out a few years ago that a new gen of Spanish midfielders suck plus that football has evolved and moved towards physical + pacey wingers + direct direction.
And in the last few years, we tried with guys like Pedri, Gavi, Puig, Arthur = all of the similar type, Barca's way type, isn't it?
While Real bought Valverde, Tchouameni, Camavinga.
We buy Ferran, they buy Vinicius and Endrick.

Which set of players (Ferran, Pedri, Gavi or Vinicius, Tchouameni, Camavinga, Valverde, Endrick) is more likely to win CLs in 2025, 2028 or 2032?

But hey, our type of players worked in 2010, so why not try over and over for the next 50 years.
It just has to start working again, right?

NO

 

[vegitot]

By the way, Barca is stubborn and emotional and we'll stick to our values and idols till death.
Look at Lucho how he is obsessed with Barca's players and how he is chasing shadows of Xavi-Iniesta-Busi.

The same with Laporta and Xavi, they bought tons of shitty Spanish or former La Masia players. Why? = because only they can (in theory) bring back TikiTaka or Barca's way back.

On the other hand, THERE IS A REASON why Real won 14 CLs and why they won more than us even when we had Messi.
Because they are smarter, less emotional and less obsessed with the past and "their way".
They have figured out a few years ago that a new gen of Spanish midfielders suck plus that football has evolved and moved towards physical + pacey wingers + direct direction.
And in the last few years, we tried with guys like Pedri, Gavi, Puig, Arthur = all of the similar type, Barca's way type, isn't it?
While Real bought Valverde, Tchouameni, Camavinga.
We buy Ferran, they buy Vinicius and Kendrick.

Which set of players (Ferran, Pedri, Gavi or Vinicius, Tchouameni, Camavinga, Valverde, Endrick) is more likely to win CLs in 2025, 2028 or 2032?

But hey, our type of players worked in 2010, so why not try over and over for the next 50 years.
It just has to start working again, right?

NO

2010 team would win anything. None of current Barca and Spain midfielder can come close to half of 2010 Spain.

 

[JamDav1982]

Of course Pedri is much better than Arthur. But this is not what Bbz tries to say.

Pedri is far more creative but this World Cup and recently, i feel that he hasn't tried enough with his pass. Like if there is an obvious chance to make a through ball, he will pass perfectlt. But if opponent doesn't have any opening, he will not try to open it by himself (movement, short pass to form combination or dribble).

He has been one of most progressive passers at the WC but their midfield was not working well and he was about only one that looked good enough.

As said he cant do everything.. if Lucho is more or less asking him to play LB at times yesterday as the link between defence and midfield was failing dont expect him to be up pitch tryig to open game up.

Pedri was Spains best midfielder by far.

Arthur is not remotely similar to Pedri. It is lazi comparison and neither were anything like Puig.

 

[BBZ8800]

Arthur is not remotely similar to Pedri. It is lazi comparison and neither were anything like Puig.

Yes he is

Imagine if this is a videogame and Xavi is a legendary player with 10 world class skill areas.

And, you as a player picked Arthur or Pedri for your video-game team.
But in the beginning, you have only 4 coins to buy only 4 out of 10 Xavi's skills and transfer them them to Pedri/Arthur.

4 skills which Arthur bought from Xavi are:
1. Press resistance + technique
2. Recycling possession
3. Good off the ball movement
4. Getting the ball from your box to an opponent's half

Skills which you/or God didn't buy for Arthur from Xavi are:
Defending
Stamina
Forward passes
Creativity
Finishing
Long balls

The same is with Pedri.
Skills bought:
1. Technique
2. Some forward passes
3. Some press resistance
4. Recycling possession

Skills not bought from Xavi:
1. Defending
2. Stamina
3. Creativity
4. Finishing
5. Long balls
6. Good off the ball movement
7. Getting the ball from your box to an opponent's half

So, Pedri is not the same player as Xavi.
But they were both "built" based on Xavi and God only gave them 3-4-5 out of Xavi's 10 skills.

So, both do resemble on Xavi/Barca's way in some ways, but both are Wallmart versions of Barca's way/Xavi with a different set of huuuuge flaws.

Inspite of Pedri being the best Spanish or Barca's midfielder, they are miles away from a required level.

A CL group stage exit is more or less a true level of a team where key midfielders will be of Arthur's or Pedri's quality level.

 

[Co0ter]

BBZ made some good points, especially about how Barca is emotional with decisions regarding recruiting players and is trying to stick to this Barca DNA theory rather than build a cohesive, world class squad.

But Pedri is nothing like Arthur, even at his age he is much better than Arthur ever was or has been. I however think it's hilarious how both Xavi and Enrique somehow think a Pedri and Gavi pairing will ever be a strong, effective and well rounded midfield.

Also, judging Pedri this WC is unfair. I watched Busquets literally walk around, WALK AROUND for 120 minutes and then take the most pathetic penalty I've ever seen. He offered no movement, both offensively or making himself available to the defense to get the ball forward, and was lazy getting back whenever they countered... all game long. He is a liability, the worst kind of liability because he is a DM who doesn't do anything a DM should in modern football.

How can anyone thrive playing next to him, let alone two kids who have to sprint all game long just to attempt and compensate for him doing nothing.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes he is

Imagine if this is a videogame and Xavi is a legendary player with 10 world class skill areas.

And, you as a player picked Arthur or Pedri for your video-game team.
But in the beginning, you have only 4 coins to buy only 4 out of 10 Xavi's skills and transfer them them to Pedri/Arthur.

4 skills which Arthur bought from Xavi are:
1. Press resistance + technique
2. Recycling possession
3. Good off the ball movement
4. Getting the ball from your box to an opponent's half

Skills which you/or God didn't buy for Arthur from Xavi are:
Defending
Stamina
Forward passes
Creativity
Finishing
Long balls

The same is with Pedri.
Skills bought:
1. Technique
2. Some forward passes
3. Some press resistance
4. Recycling possession

Skills not bought from Xavi:
1. Defending
2. Stamina
3. Creativity
4. Finishing
5. Long balls
6. Good off the ball movement
7. Getting the ball from your box to an opponent's half

So, Pedri is not the same player as Xavi.
But they were both "built" based on Xavi and God only gave them 3-4-5 out of Xavi's 10 skills.

So, both do resemble on Xavi/Barca's way in some ways, but both are Wallmart versions of Barca's way/Xavi with a different set of huuuuge flaws.

Inspite of Pedri being the best Spanish or Barca's midfielder, they are miles away from a required level.

A CL group stage exit is more or less a true level of a team where key midfielders will be of Arthur's or Pedri's quality level.

Nah Arthur is not remotely similar at all. Very different players and what they look to do on ball.

Just making shit up as usual as if Pedri doesnt have range on his passing or creativity.. he is in different league to Arthur on that front.

Try harder than that. You just decide something and then post some essay of made up nonsense and claim it as fact.

Usual.

Lets see if Barca keep going out in Group with Pedri as a key player... wont happen the way you make out.

 

[serghei]

Pedri is just a talented kid. Would not start at any top team with ambitions right now and it's pretty clear. He has to work physically very hard to be able to sustain a full 90 mins of intensity to be able to cope with games in CL and at WC level.

 

[serghei]

He's an excellent player for a team like Dortmund, used to win nothing and play youngsters to develop them and sell them for a big payday. Not for clubs aiming big. Not as a starter anyway.

Now of course if he'd be paired with peak Casemiro and Modric from 4-5 years ago he'd do much better, but we have neither of those players. He is probably our highest rated midfielder, which is a problem because he really is not that good yet compared to the level of expectations that is put on his shoulder.

Maybe with our finances being shit, it's time to use a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha behind the striker and Dembele RW. Gavi/Pedri and De Jong in a double pivot.

With the upgrades in attack with Lewa, Raphinha, and this hot form Dembele, and the signings in defense with Kounde and Christensen, plus apparition of Balde, the midfield is lagging behind now. Pedri is in his worst season yet at Barca imo, Gavi is not consistent, Busi an even older corpse, and Kessie looks like a total non-factor.

We banked on the fast development of Pedri and Gavi, also due to too much hype too soon, but it's not panning out well. They still play like kids in a men's game far too often. We got burned in CL, and now Lucho got burned in the World Cup just the same. Midfield depends on De Jong, someone that we tried to sell in the summer.

Sounds to me the midfield is a major worry now. The expectations are higher than last season and the players aren't responding well to added stress and pressure.

 

[Givenchy]

He's an excellent player for a team like Dortmund, used to win nothing and play youngsters to develop them and sell them for a big payday. Not for clubs aiming big. Not as a starter anyway.

Now of course if he'd be paired with peak Casemiro and Modric from 4-5 years ago he'd do much better, but we have neither of those players. He is probably our highest rated midfielder, which is a problem because he really is not that good yet compared to the level of expectations that is put on his shoulder.

Maybe with our finances being shit, it's time to use a 4-2-3-1, with Raphinha behind the striker and Dembele RW. Gavi/Pedri and De Jong in a double pivot.

With the upgrades in attack with Lewa, Raphinha, and this new Dembele, and the signings in defense with Kounde and Christensen, plus apparition of Balde, the midfield is lagging behind now. Pedri is in his worst season yet at Barca imo, Gavi is not consistent, Busi an even older corpse, and Kessie looks like a total non-factor.

We banked on the fast development of Pedri and Gavi, also due to too much hype too soon, but it's not panning out well. They still play like kids in a men's game far too often. We got burned in CL, and now Lucho got burned in the World Cup just the same.

Dude.. they kind of are still kids, Gavi at least. Not saying he'll be a world beater but people should cut them some slack, we are expecting too much of them.

I agree with you on that 4231 double pivot though, would put Frenkie in his best position + Raph and Dembouz can play at the same time. Seems like a no brainer.