9 - Robert Lewandowski
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Temptation
Well-known member
Maradona37
Well-known member
Many many better players than him never won it.
Two points though:
1) I guess people think he deserves it now, because of the 2020 debacle, I agree he was robbed then; and
2) He shouldn't give a fuck anyway, as individual awards in a team sport are a fucking joke and too many people care far too much about this donkey award. As I said before, football is in such a bad state now that most of the no attention span Gen Z players would rather win this media-informed political award than do something substantial on the pitch and win the fucking World Cup - the biggest prize in the game. Someone said Vini even admitted that (though it may be a fabricated quote). That's how bad modern football is.
Temptation
Well-known member
I'm tired of debating this with you so won't get into it again. It's fine that he isn't your type of player. No issues. It's just that many people like the type of player he is and his achievements. It's that simple. Most people outside this forum disagree with your assessment of RL9 as a player(which is why you made that post today).
It helps that he's a very nice guy and easy to look at.
Why does he have fans? He was the face of a top league for a decade. He has been the star player and main man at 3 of the biggest clubs in the world and won trophies for them. Dortmund might not be as big as the other 2 but they're still huge. Klopp's Dortmund is probably the most famous hipsters' favourite team ever. Bayern and Barca are 2 of the biggest clubs in the world(both in the top 5).
If he did a few years at one of the PL giants, he'd have even more fans. These days, hundreds of people on social media call him the "greatest striker ever" in the comments section of the big Football pages in every related post. Don't wanna debate this rn, I'm just saying that the masses love him, like you said yourself.
It helps that he's a very nice guy and easy to look at.
Why does he have fans? He was the face of a top league for a decade. He has been the star player and main man at 3 of the biggest clubs in the world and won trophies for them. Dortmund might not be as big as the other 2 but they're still huge. Klopp's Dortmund is probably the most famous hipsters' favourite team ever. Bayern and Barca are 2 of the biggest clubs in the world(both in the top 5).
If he did a few years at one of the PL giants, he'd have even more fans. These days, hundreds of people on social media call him the "greatest striker ever" in the comments section of the big Football pages in every related post. Don't wanna debate this rn, I'm just saying that the masses love him, like you said yourself.
Maradona37
Well-known member
He's not really my type of player, true. But I still acknowledge he's a fantastic striker.
Well, you made my point for me by saying a lot of kids and know-fuck-alls on social media (lol) call him 'the greatest striker ever'. He's objectively NOT the greatest striker ever, and they're getting really carried away. There's absolutely nothing to support him being the 'greatest striker ever' and that proves my point that his popularity is not proportional with his ability.
There's absolutely no reason anyone can give to claim he's better than Van Basten, Batistuta, Muller, Romario or especially Ronaldo 9. You have to go on about goal stats in an inflated era, but anyone who watched those players knows they were probably better than Lewa, or definitely better in some cases. That's before we go further back in time and talk about Pele (if you class him as a striker), Puskas, Kopa and others.
There is simply no way on this earth anyone can seriously argue - with a straight face - that he's the best striker ever. Not when Pele, MVB, Muller, R9 and Romario exist. Sorry, but it is true. It's up for debate if he's even better than Benzema and Suarez in his own generation, never mind those guys.
Proves my point that people love him and want the absolute best for him.
Temptation
Well-known member
Why are you debating this point? That wasn't what I said. I just made that point as an example of people liking him. That wasn't a Temptation quote, was it?
What are your thoughts on my actual points? I'd be more interested to know that. Peace.
Maradona37
Well-known member
I agree fully with your points - he's very very popular. My argument was included there - his popularity exceeds his actual ability. For reasons you implied - he's a nice guy, seems a great guy to go for a drink with, and he is very handsome. He is also tall, good head of hair, represents the masculine ideal (much more than Ronaldo for me).
I think, on a subconscious level, people know he is really really handsome and are reacting positively to that. That's also partly why Ronaldo gets a lot of hate - on the same subconscious level, people know it's not quite right he's called a hunk and they're pushing back against his looks as well as his personality. Does that make sense? With a handsome guy (Robert) people will respond positively, yet with a guy CLAIMED TO BE HANDSOME BUT NOT REALLY (Cristiano) people will subconsciously be appalled by the overrating of his appearance, and actually he will become a lot less popular for that reason, as people know he cannot back up his arrogance.
If Lewa started calling himself gorgeous I am sure people wouldn't react negatively, because he can back it up with his looks. But other guys (like the one I keep laying into) cannot so are hated as a result.
So about Lewa - he's a nice guy, very handsome, a family man, never in hot water outside of football, professional, and scores a lot of goals. People react positively to all that. So they will go over the top about him. Recency bias helps too. He's one of the best strikers ever maybe, but there's no lucid reason to say he's better than 3-4 others from history who are definitely superior.
You can make the same point about Messi...is he more popular than he deserves to be, is he loved by many? Yes, but the difference is he is GENUINELY best player ever material, and doesn't have Lewa's looks. So nobody can accuse him of being a PR hypejob (not that Lewa is either, but to a bigger degree than messi).
So the overall point is there's a lot of non-football stuff people like about Lewa - rightly so, I might add. Add in the many goals, and you have a lot of people deluding themselves that he's better than Muller or Ronaldo or Romario or Van Basten or Batigol.
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Maradona37
Well-known member
Listen, I am definitely not slagging off Lewa. I rate everything about him off the pitch and - while he's not my style of striker, Benzema or Suarez are more my thing - I acknowledge he's a brilliant player and amazing goalscorer.
What I am interested in is why he seems to be much more well-liked off the pitch than 99.9 percent of players, and I feel you and I have covered why. I also feel that unusual, anomalous level of reverence has led to him being overrated in the all-time debate, in a sport where so many players - including Messi himself, by a mile the best player of his and Lewa's gen - receive a polarising response and so much criticism. But not Lewa, apparently (other than on barcaforum, ironically). Nobody really dislikes Robert.
So to me, this unbelievably high level of popularity and likeability is making people (including you) say he's better than R9 and the best striker ever because you all WANT it to be true, and not because you genuinely believe it is true (deep down). Same with the Ronaldo fanboys trying to convince themselves he's superior to Messi because they like Ronaldo as a personality more than Messi, but deep down they know he's not better or even close, really.
I would much rather hang out with Lewa than Messi or Benzema or Creepnaldo or Suarez, so you can believe me when I tell you that me rating them all as superior players to him has nothing to do with 'likeability' outside of football.
What I am interested in is why he seems to be much more well-liked off the pitch than 99.9 percent of players, and I feel you and I have covered why. I also feel that unusual, anomalous level of reverence has led to him being overrated in the all-time debate, in a sport where so many players - including Messi himself, by a mile the best player of his and Lewa's gen - receive a polarising response and so much criticism. But not Lewa, apparently (other than on barcaforum, ironically). Nobody really dislikes Robert.
So to me, this unbelievably high level of popularity and likeability is making people (including you) say he's better than R9 and the best striker ever because you all WANT it to be true, and not because you genuinely believe it is true (deep down). Same with the Ronaldo fanboys trying to convince themselves he's superior to Messi because they like Ronaldo as a personality more than Messi, but deep down they know he's not better or even close, really.
I would much rather hang out with Lewa than Messi or Benzema or Creepnaldo or Suarez, so you can believe me when I tell you that me rating them all as superior players to him has nothing to do with 'likeability' outside of football.
TemporaryFan
Well-known member
Lewandowski is uncontroversial, non playboy type , a catholic family guy. He's modest for the most part and imho tries to be too shy in his PR, but maybe he doesn't need fanfare. He is ultra professional and
the only problem and dislike reactions he gets is when his admirers go over the board with their hailing and praising of him, like he is from another planet.
Football is a straightforward sport, and evidently he gets lots of goals, which makes him excellent but that's all he's going to be remembered for. He won't be rembered for amazing dribbles, long range shots, astonishing pace, handling of the ball...things for which Messi, Ronaldo. Neymar, Maradona. Pele, Platini, Zidane, Figo remembered shall be.
It is like saying that Sylvester Stallone, who was great at what he did, is workshop-wise a better actor than Robert DeNiro, Robert Redford, Henry Fonda, Marlon Brando and Al Pacino...
the only problem and dislike reactions he gets is when his admirers go over the board with their hailing and praising of him, like he is from another planet.
Football is a straightforward sport, and evidently he gets lots of goals, which makes him excellent but that's all he's going to be remembered for. He won't be rembered for amazing dribbles, long range shots, astonishing pace, handling of the ball...things for which Messi, Ronaldo. Neymar, Maradona. Pele, Platini, Zidane, Figo remembered shall be.
It is like saying that Sylvester Stallone, who was great at what he did, is workshop-wise a better actor than Robert DeNiro, Robert Redford, Henry Fonda, Marlon Brando and Al Pacino...
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Temptation
Well-known member
ZenI
Professor Balthazar
I haven't read the last pages of this thread, but I can say Lewa was actually the most hard working player for us against Sociedad and it was the rest of the team that fucked up minus Pedri and Casado. We fucked up including Flicks approach/tactics in this match - but don't blame Lewa against Sociedad.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Yeah, he is a brilliant player and that is a great video, some beautiful touches there. I don't wanna slag him off or anything - it's just me rating him relative to his peers and past strikers, who were also, like him, amongst the best strikers ever.
Cheers.
Grande
Member
Name 3 games where Lewandowski team was equal or better than opposition and Lewandowski choked
Ter Stature
Active member
The disadvantage of being a generational footballer from one of the weakest footballing nations is immense.
But I guess that's just the entire history of them, getting annihilated by the big guns.
But I guess that's just the entire history of them, getting annihilated by the big guns.
iniestaGOAT
Senior Member
Name 1 game where Lewandowski scored in UCL finals
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