Without the rat making Zig zag runs all through our lineup in copa and against atletico in the CL final, Madrid would have lost both the CL and the copa del rey. Madrid have traded a top 5 dribbler in world football with 10 lungs to a static striker cum midfielder in Hames and he is going to flop while I expect madrid not to win a single major trophy this season.
Ángel Di María
- Thread starter Evil
- Start date
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Being the 'best' is very different from level of importance. In terms of being productive and efficient in output, Ronaldo always was and always will be superior to Di Maria. Still, as the Argentina v. Switzerland match showed, Di Maria's phenomenal and perpetual engine/persistence plays a huge part in breaking teams down even if he's doing crazy and inefficient shit half the time (most notably in the toughest and most heavily competed games).
What footyfan didn't consider in terms of the perception of a 'Barca fan' is that a season's Clasico record is seen as important towards perceived success despite its relative lack of impact on the league table. Also, Cules naturally want RM to falter in the more difficult/competitive matches which is much easier without an engine like Di Maria on their team. As games get more closed, combative, and competitively difficult for RM its guys like Ronaldo who dwindle in their impact. Di Maria is the one who, for both Argentina and RM, increased his influence as the difficulty rose. (I wouldn't consider a game like Bayern for example to be particularly 'difficult' just because of how easily they dominated. I consider a difficult game in this post to be one that faces a lot of adversity, not just one against bigger teams or on the higher stage).
Against compact bunker teams like Switzerland or Atletico, he'd be accumulating some well over 100 touches of the ball (128 vs Switzerland IIRC) and just send wave after wave of attack at them. Even when his teammates and the opposition got tired, his lungs seemed to even improve in capacity and ultimately broke them down. In the end to end shootout of the 4-3 Clasico or CDR final Di Maria's skill and speed were impossible to contain. As games got difficult and clashed head on for Real Madrid, Di Maria was a huge weapon to tire them out and tactically break them down. Even in the 1st leg of the Spanish Supercup when he came on late he was walking all over the Atletico defense which was the best in Europe last season. His free attacking role in midfield was one of the biggest keys to unlocking his ability to have much more influence and many more touches of the ball.
Ronaldo's goal output was great but scoring non-factor goals against Bayern or ET penaldo's against Atletico really weren't of the same importance as Di Maria breaking down teams in the biggest of matches. The former is the better and more efficient player but losing Di Maria leaves a big hole to be filled in that Madrid side.
What footyfan didn't consider in terms of the perception of a 'Barca fan' is that a season's Clasico record is seen as important towards perceived success despite its relative lack of impact on the league table. Also, Cules naturally want RM to falter in the more difficult/competitive matches which is much easier without an engine like Di Maria on their team. As games get more closed, combative, and competitively difficult for RM its guys like Ronaldo who dwindle in their impact. Di Maria is the one who, for both Argentina and RM, increased his influence as the difficulty rose. (I wouldn't consider a game like Bayern for example to be particularly 'difficult' just because of how easily they dominated. I consider a difficult game in this post to be one that faces a lot of adversity, not just one against bigger teams or on the higher stage).
Against compact bunker teams like Switzerland or Atletico, he'd be accumulating some well over 100 touches of the ball (128 vs Switzerland IIRC) and just send wave after wave of attack at them. Even when his teammates and the opposition got tired, his lungs seemed to even improve in capacity and ultimately broke them down. In the end to end shootout of the 4-3 Clasico or CDR final Di Maria's skill and speed were impossible to contain. As games got difficult and clashed head on for Real Madrid, Di Maria was a huge weapon to tire them out and tactically break them down. Even in the 1st leg of the Spanish Supercup when he came on late he was walking all over the Atletico defense which was the best in Europe last season. His free attacking role in midfield was one of the biggest keys to unlocking his ability to have much more influence and many more touches of the ball.
Ronaldo's goal output was great but scoring non-factor goals against Bayern or ET penaldo's against Atletico really weren't of the same importance as Di Maria breaking down teams in the biggest of matches. The former is the better and more efficient player but losing Di Maria leaves a big hole to be filled in that Madrid side.
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Blaugrana Bull
HiiiPoWeR
I do not even want to compare him to Ronaldo.
What I see now in Madrid is Ronaldo + James what was Ronaldo + Di Maria before. The latter is clearly the better duo.
What I see now in Madrid is Ronaldo + James what was Ronaldo + Di Maria before. The latter is clearly the better duo.
footyfan
Calma, calma
You're only this confident in your words because he just had an amazing half-season. Would you have said the same at the end of 2012/13 season? Or 2011/12? With Ronaldo, you can expect pretty much the same level of performance in every season. Even in the most compact and difficult games, Di Maria has only been better in 2014 when he got moved to his midfield position. Could he have sustained that level of performance for another season? We don't know that yet.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Well we can't just completely neglect his shift into the midfield role as it was most likely the causality for his 'amazing half season', not just a purely random spike in his form correlating with the positional change. For 11/12 or 12/13 the judgement of Di Maria on the RW was on the basis of how much his skill/vision could decide games for RM which would fluctuate on his form and efficiency. Now, his position highlights one of his most important traits which is raw stamina and involvement (which remain constants and become most prominent in games that require sustained persistence and effort, i.e difficult and played-out games). Even if his efficiency and form fluctuates, he can still have a huge impact on the match like the match against Switzerland showed.
For a straight up comparison of Ronaldo vs. Di Maria, we'd be unable to assume that his 2nd half of 13/14 form would continue on for RM in the same system had he stayed. We'd also give more weight to Ronaldo's consistency over several seasons and games in a row. The thing about Ronaldo isn't something I particularly disputed as I do agree he is the better player and his track record for RM is much better than Di Maria's. This is just a measure of Di Maria's impact in comparison to Ronaldo's in the latest sample space (13/14 with Di Maria's positional change) and how it's now being lost. It's just meant to highlight how 'intangibly' important he was for the successful counterattacking system they played whereas Ronaldo's influence started and ended with goals. A better comparison can and will be made based on how RM's new midfield can substitute or compensate for what Di Maria gave last season but we haven't seen them consistently in action yet so it's impossible to judge.
DrPepper
New member
Di Maria is not Madrid's best player, but might be their most important. At least last season, for Ancelotti's system. It's similar to when Real Madrid won the Champions League in 2002 and then sold Makelele. Not their best player obviously but as his teammates had said, their most important, though. The engine that ran the team. Zidane once famously said "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?".
Of course it could turn out differently and Madrid win the treble but there's reason to suggest otherwise.
Of course it could turn out differently and Madrid win the treble but there's reason to suggest otherwise.
SEvolution
New member
CesDel
New member
dat service.
I wouldn't use that goal as proof that C.ronaldo can consistently score without service. He tends to make those kind of shots like 5 times per game and yet only scores a goal from range once every blue moon.
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
You mean the season where he was terrible uptil January? Di Maria is, at best, a half-season player.
2010/11 he was probably the most frustrating winger in the world (definition of headless chicken)
2011/12 he had that amazing half-season where he racked up a ton of assists, even playing sometimes at the attacking midfielder, i.e Ozil's position.
2012/13 he was invisible throughout, good game against Barca though in the 3-1 Copa del Rey win.
2013/14 nothing until January, then moved to his midfield position and started tearing shit up. Amazing half-season again.
Meanwhile Ronaldo has just had his 4th consecutive 50 goal+ season and just set a UCL record with 17 goals in 1 season. Even if you consider the end of last season when he was struggling with injury, Ronaldo has 22 goals in his last 21 Madrid games. He's a lot likelier to be responsible for Madrid winning La Liga than Di Maria, which is why Barca fans should want him to go away. The Clasicos are only 2-3 games per year and statistically will not make as much of a difference in the title race. Yes, in 2014 Di Maria has definitely outperformed Ronaldo in Clasicos. However 2012 and 2013, Ronaldo outperformed him, he scored in 7-8 consecutive Clasicos and also in 6? consecutive games at the Camp Nou.
Let's not forget the only game that Madrid lost last UCL campaign and almost got eliminated was vs Dortmund where Ronaldo didn't play. And guess what, Di Maria missed what could have been a crucial penalty only for Mkhitaryan to save his blushes.
I agree.
dat service.
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
Co0ter
Senior Member
Modric hasn't even given a FRACTION of what Di Maria has for Real Madrid. In every major game, while Ronaldo sits there useless 99% of the game before scoring a random goal. Di Maria is running up and down the pitch, playing defense, taking on defenders with his dribbles and creating those plays for Ronaldo to score in the first place.
Modric isn't even in the picture for most important Real Madrid player. Di Maria got it just right; he was traded in for a younger, much more like-able personality in James and they are hoping he turns out as good. A new galactico, that is all.
Cule4life
The Culest
More like a pretty boy to sell (8484857-8457771) shirts
footyfan
Calma, calma
A stupid statement required a stupid response. No player, neither Messi nor Ronaldo, can consistently score without service. It's supposed to imply that Ronaldo can score goals perfectly well without Di Maria's service.
I think and hope that you're trolling, because similar posts can be made with Xavi assisting Messi, followed by posts of 'Messi will be useless without Xavi giving him service'.
Elite-BkD
New member
Di Maria can play fantastically for 90 minutes against elite teams all over the park, something Ronaldo has literally never done.
Scoring loads of goals for teams which dominate opponents by overwhelming, unprecedented margins in terms of money and squad strength is grossly overrated these days.
Scoring loads of goals for teams which dominate opponents by overwhelming, unprecedented margins in terms of money and squad strength is grossly overrated these days.
CuleLife4Life
Active member
Lol Barca, Atleti, and RM do this week in and week out when they aren't facing each other in La Liga.
Anyway I wish Angel the best. There has to be some pressure on him as English league record signing as well as Man Utd's. They are really going to need him to make an immediate impact.
Cristiano will be fine having the other 9 players in outfield assist him. I'm sure their motto is pass to Ronaldo when its time to shoot.
Same thing with Messi so all the people who say he'll be useless without Xavi can screw it.
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