Arda Turan

[FlaFCB]

Thanks for proving my point

Do you think Barcelona as some kind of undefeateble legendary team nowadays?

He actually disproved your point. The question was about Arda's foul that cost the 2 points. Easy to understand that was about him. Lucho was pissed in that presser.

 

[Narto]

Performing in dead rubbers isn't a good benchmark. And he's not playing important games because he fell out in the picking order, for his laziness. Coming in when the game is already won and scoring isn't improving. It's the same thing cr get rightfully criticized for, scoring but not playing well, but Arda gets a pass. Go figure this logic.

Your criticism was that he wasn't decisive in important games. How can you be decisive, and show that you've improved, in important games if you don't get to play to play in any? CR gets to play in every game, but only performs in easy ones, that is not the same at all. And the reason he doesn't get to play in important games is because his favourable position is occupied by Neymar. If you only get to play easy matches, the only thing you can do is perform in those. And even last season there were unimportant games he didn't perform in, and he certainly didn't score as much. Based on that, you can't say he hasn't improved.

 

[FlaFCB]

Your criticism was that he wasn't decisive in important games. How can you be decisive, and show that you've improved, in important games if you don't get to play to play in any? CR gets to play in every game, but only performs in easy ones, that is not the same at all. And the reason he doesn't get to play in important games is because his favourable position is occupied by Neymar. If you only get to play easy matches, the only thing you can do is perform in those. And even last season there were unimportant games he didn't perform in, and he certainly didn't score as much. Based on that, you can't say he hasn't improved.

My criticism is Arda has been subpar, lazy, nonchalant and disinterested since he was signed. I had high hopes for a player like him. But so far he's been cesc-like, and not in a good way. For you, it seems performing equals only scoring, but not to me. That's not what's most important. His actual contribution to the way the team plays has been subpar. I discussed that a long deal with @Jombi here, back when I was still defending Arda. Arda's performances changed my mind about him. Takes more than scoring to change that back.

 

[Pepfan]

Arda has been good so far except against RM. The only problem is for lucho to find a place for him in the team. I agree with you on the expectation part but he doesn't fit in the current system at any position other than LW and LCM.

 

[Potroh]

Based on that, you can't say he hasn't improved.

Maybe some can't say that but I can and will. Yes: he did not improve.
He scored more, his statistics are probably better, but as a player he is still the very same: slow, sluggish, lazy and nothing more than average.

When one understands the difference between "playing well" in certain games and "being an outstanding player", those will definitely disagree with his improvement theory, because he is a 30 yrs old player who will never ever improve anymore. Perhaps he will score easy and unimportant goals in some games but that's definitely not improvement, apart from the statistics...

 

[God Serena]

Those people boasting about Arda's goals and his stats... Can you name even one time Arda's goal contributions have helped this team? As a sub, or a starter? Hat tricks against Leverkusen and Hercules or whatever don't count as helping the team, btw. As Flavia has said, that's Ronaldo logic, and is the reason why he can compete with Messi in all the stat charts, while only winning La Liga once in nearly a decade.

You can list off excuses for why nothing he does matters to the club and why he's only used when he can't possibly hurt the team (Except Real Madrid, for some reason), but his situation is the way it is for a reason. He was brought in to be a midfielder, a role he can't perform, and his "I couldn't play for 6 months!!!!" excuse is long dead now. Shoehorning him in as a subpar replacement for Pedro does not make him worth his incredible price tag.

Arda is average at best and if he was sold the team would not be any worse.

 

[Havesaks]

If it was Neymar scoring the goal 6 minutes before the game was over (from 5 centimeters) our wise people would say: so what, anybody could do that, no big deal.
But when Arda does that, the same folks see a "born goalscorer" in him, regardless that he didn't have a single useful pass.
This type of primitive subjectivity (the scorer is always the hero) is simply crazy...

Lucho says Denis could be the new Iniesta because he scored two goals, even crazier... It's simply a 3rd class play with the prompt emotions of fans who only care for winning and scoring...

Hey man, don’t get me wrong, I love Neymar and his contribution to the team overall, I know he has done well and we should appreciate having a starplayer like him in the team. Neymars contribution to the team has been way better/more than Turans, and he is for sure a better player than Turan who the first half year was a huge failure, but we need to be fair: half a year off the pitch and then getting used to our playing style isn't that easy an challenge. Vidal is struggling as well. And considering the fact that he has been used on a wrong position several times... We need to take those factors into account if we wanna make a judgement about him. And we CANNOT make a judgement about Turan if he isn’t used more.

So basically, in IMO its like this:

1) Neymar has been underperforming for a year considering price, wages and expectations. Still a worldclass player and playing really good. But he shouldn't be untouchable, and sadly it seems to be the case.

2) Turan is playing good on the LW the last half year, but we don’t have enough data to make a judgement (Vidal: same thing). I have no idea how he will perform if getting continually playing time also in bigger matches. But he should get the chances to prove him self - and right now he doesn't. Edit: I dont care that much about Turans statistics, but for me has been playing well and on top of that scored some goals and made some assists.


In a perfect and optimal world, Turan should be offered more chances the next half year and based on his performance we can make a judgement.

I hate when people makes impulsive judgements about a player without giving him the time and chances he needs to prove him self.
Edit: I sometime feel that the majority og people don't get that this isn't FootballManager but the real world. :/

Neymar is such a talent that no matter what we shouldn’t sell him this summer, of course. But he also needs to improve. I would wait to summer 18’ and reconsider his situation then.

 

[Mido]

His fault may be then to sit on the bench...

 

[dostoevskij]

Those people boasting about Arda's goals and his stats... Can you name even one time Arda's goal contributions have helped this team? As a sub, or a starter? Hat tricks against Leverkusen and Hercules or whatever don't count as helping the team, btw. As Flavia has said, that's Ronaldo logic, and is the reason why he can compete with Messi in all the stat charts, while only winning La Liga once in nearly a decade.

You can list off excuses for why nothing he does matters to the club and why he's only used when he can't possibly hurt the team (Except Real Madrid, for some reason), but his situation is the way it is for a reason. He was brought in to be a midfielder, a role he can't perform, and his "I couldn't play for 6 months!!!!" excuse is long dead now. Shoehorning him in as a subpar replacement for Pedro does not make him worth his incredible price tag.

Arda is average at best and if he was sold the team would not be any worse.

ok i give you one: in second group game against gladbach, we were down 1:0 late in the game without Messi, had we lost this one it could have been really tricky, but then suddenly out of nowhere somebody scored that crucial equaliser, when we most needed it. His Name is Arda...

 

[Potroh]

and then getting used to our playing style isn't that easy an challenge.

Please try to absorb that "getting used to our playing style" as many say here is nothing else but a myth.
A player lacking certain capabilities or skills could be 100% well versed in the style and usual tactics but in case he is unable fit in due to the needed stuff he is lacking, you can change his position (Arda, Roberto) you can let him play more and more (Gomes), nothing will change fundamentally because of lack of talent or something else.

Barca is a world class team, so it needs world class players, at least 7-8 of them. Arda is not a world class, neither is Gomes, Vidal, Roberto or Denis (even if scored 3 times in two games), thus all this small-talk about giving time and changing style (and losing the Liga at the same time) is useless.
Xavi and Alves were both world class players so finding their successors means finding world class player as well. The "hopes"" and optimistic subjectivity will not create WC players.

Arda has never ever been an attacker, a goalscorer, as a matter of fact he is pretty lucky that he could score a few easy goals, unlike Suarez or Messi who can also score very difficult ones too, so it is as much luck for him as it is for the good old coach, who got him bought as a midfielder...

 

[evilhita666]

You know, I'm perfectly fine with him scoring in dead rubber games, because someone has to do it... We are expected to win every single match or it's a crisis, so having someone taking care of those games instead of running our starting eleven into the ground is something positive for me... And in a bit of wishful thinking, maybe someday he'll be able to translate his scoring form into an important match if we need to...

Now, if that is worth 40 million, that's a whole different story...

 

[Narto]

Maybe some can't say that but I can and will. Yes: he did not improve.
He scored more, his statistics are probably better, but as a player he is still the very same: slow, sluggish, lazy and nothing more than average.

When one understands the difference between "playing well" in certain games and "being an outstanding player", those will definitely disagree with his improvement theory, because he is a 30 yrs old player who will never ever improve anymore. Perhaps he will score easy and unimportant goals in some games but that's definitely not improvement, apart from the statistics...

No, he can't improve as a player. But he can improve in regards to the system he is playing in. But whether you want to attribute that to playing on another position is up to you.

Those people boasting about Arda's goals and his stats... Can you name even one time Arda's goal contributions have helped this team? As a sub, or a starter? Hat tricks against Leverkusen and Hercules or whatever don't count as helping the team, btw. As Flavia has said, that's Ronaldo logic, and is the reason why he can compete with Messi in all the stat charts, while only winning La Liga once in nearly a decade.

You can list off excuses for why nothing he does matters to the club and why he's only used when he can't possibly hurt the team (Except Real Madrid, for some reason), but his situation is the way it is for a reason. He was brought in to be a midfielder, a role he can't perform, and his "I couldn't play for 6 months!!!!" excuse is long dead now. Shoehorning him in as a subpar replacement for Pedro does not make him worth his incredible price tag.

Arda is average at best and if he was sold the team would not be any worse.

First of all, no one is using his 6 months ban as an "excuse" to the way he is playing now, no one is comparing his contributions to Messi's, and no one is saying that his goals against Hercules or whoever have helped the team. Those stats and performances are just used to say that he could play well against better teams if given the chance, and that he is a solid sub for resting Neymar or if Neymar gets injured.

Second, this logic of him not being used because he is not trusted or doesn't perform against big teams just doesn't work when he hasn't been given the chance and the one competing for his spot is Neymar. And no, he probably won't get the chance as long as Neymar is not injured, but that's not really his fault.

As for examples of his contributions so far: Gladbach first leg (turned the game around), against Athletic (assisted the only goal), Las Palmas (started the second and third goal and scored the fourth). Got some more if you want.

 

[Potroh]

No, he can't improve as a player. But he can improve in regards to the system he is playing in.

The "system" he is playing in is known to be one of the most creative systems worldwide.
He knows the system for one and a half years, so I assure you he won't understand it better.

Concerning the MSN, it is one of the fastest attacking formation worldwide.
Is he creative enough to take Messis or Neymar's place? No.
Is he fast enough to take Messis or Neymar's place? No.

Will he be able to contribute time to time? Definitely yes, but that doesn't make him different from what he is: a sluggish, slow and often lazy player with good skills and often good senses on the ground.

 

[Alik]

Those people boasting about Arda's goals and his stats... Can you name even one time Arda's goal contributions have helped this team? As a sub, or a starter? Hat tricks against Leverkusen and Hercules or whatever don't count as helping the team, btw.

In bold, matches where Arda contributed particularly:

Arda has been one of the best performers, or best, in most of the matches he's played at LW. He's had a good season in that position. Yes, he often played against weaker sides, but so did 10 other players.

From the stats thread:

01.Spanish Supercup - 1st leg
Sevilla 0 - 2 FC Barcelona
Goals: Suarez, Munir
Assists: Arda, Messi
YC: Suarez

02.Spanish Supercup - 2nd leg
FC Barcelona 3 - 0 Sevilla
Goals: Arda(2), Messi
Assists: Messi, Digne
YC: Umtiti

03.Lliga - Round 01
FC Barcelona 6 - 2 Real Betis
Goals: Arda, Messi(2), Suarez(3)
Assists: Alba, Roberto(2), Messi, Arda
YC: Suarez

04.Lliga - Round 02
Athletic Club 0 - 1 FC Barcelona
Goal: Rakitic
Assist: Arda
YC: Umtiti, Busquets, Suarez, Roberto

09.Lliga - Round 06
Sporting Gijon 0 - 5 FC Barcelona
Goals: Suarez, Rafinha, Neymar(2), Arda
Assists: Arda, Roberto(2), Denis

10.UCL - GS - Round 02
Borussia M. 1 - 2 FC Barcelona
Goals: Arda, Pique
Assist: Neymar
YC: Mascherano, Pique, Neymar

23.UCL - GS - Round 06
FC Barcelona 4 - 0 Borussia M.
Goals: Messi, Arda(3)
Assists: Arda, Vidal, Paco

26.Cdr - Round of 16
FC Barcelona 7 - 0 Hercules
Goals: Digne, Rakitic, Rafinha, Arda(3), Paco
Assists: Rafinha, Arda, Vidal
YC: Vidal

So aside from scoring vs Hercules, he has scored and assisted plenty of times against first division opponents, ending up as our third highest goal scorer and assist maker.

Furthermore, he has the second highest number of gold medals and third highest number of points, as voted in out motm threads. That's despite not being a starter.

Oh, serghei had already answered that too:

So much talk about nothing. He is a very good player whith a very good end product it seems.

Assisy for Suarez Supercup - 0-0, Sevilla
Goals against Sevilla Supercup 0-0
Goal vs Betis 0-0
Assist vs Bilbao 0-0
Assist vs Gijon 0-0
Goal vs Gladbach 0-1

He helped the team a lot when Neymar was not here and since then almost everytime he player LW.

So yeah, keep focusing on the foul against Madrid and the "dead rubber" excuse, accusing others of selective memory and ignoring arguments.

He was brought in to be a midfielder, a role he can't perform, and his "I couldn't play for 6 months!!!!" excuse is long dead now. Shoehorning him in as a subpar replacement for Pedro does not make him worth his incredible price tag.

Arda is average at best and if he was sold the team would not be any worse.

He has not been a subpar replacement at all for Pedro at all. Yes, he can't play in midfield but as a LW he has been really great. He has had a great season in the matches he actually played in, and if Neymar wasn't called Neymar he would be rotated far more often.

So what if he is not a rotation option for midfield? We now have a thousand midfielders there now anyway. How many options do we have to rest Neymar? None as good as Arda.

As for the accusations of laziness, that's is again an argument only applicable to last season. This season he has clearly had a shift in attitude recognized by the coach and team.

As for "fit" with the team, I think he actually connects with the team well, has excellent technique and helps the attack flow.

 

[The Destroyer]

Arda doesn't come close to Pedro who has been one of the best wingers in the world this season.