Arthur
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
- Start date
SeloBarca
Senior Member
Although that is a counterattack goal. Doesnt say much about the attacking in general.
Were never a fan of us relying so heavily on counters as we did then
THIS is proper movement without the ball and how you position yourself to give you teammates passing options.
[youtube]ZO9n3wi2OQ8[/youtube]
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Counterattack is life..
Spain and Barca from 2009-13 relied heavily on badly built defenses. normal zonal marking, two banks of four with no pressure
in essence, tiki taka only works in an environment with soft defense.. that shit barcelona pulled back then would never work today
Felipetonelo
New member
What? One of the best generation ever was an awesome team only because of "soft defense"?
fergus90
Senior Member
Defences were not soft, teams just began to figure out ways to nullify the style of play after a while. Our build-up play has slowed down dramatically since those periods too bar 14-15 up until March/April 15-16.
The drop in quality didn't help either, we had Messi,Xavi, Iniesta, Alves,Busquets,Eto'o and Pique plus players like Yaya Toure who wasn't a guaranteed starter but an exceptional player in his own right. Outside the core 11 the general quality dropped over time.
The drop in quality didn't help either, we had Messi,Xavi, Iniesta, Alves,Busquets,Eto'o and Pique plus players like Yaya Toure who wasn't a guaranteed starter but an exceptional player in his own right. Outside the core 11 the general quality dropped over time.
KingMessi
SiempreBlaugrana
Miss me with the revisionism.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
The quality of midfielders in a Spanish NT didn't drop, and yet they are toothless after 2012', more or less the same as Barca.
Since it is about 2 teams with a quite similar style and philosophy, it is way more likely that something "changed" with our opponents and not only in our teams.
But, as always, it is a mix of factors:
1. Barca's midfield is weaker
2. Barca's players are older
3. Barca's and Spain's players are less motivated due to winning all titles
4. opponents learned ways how to defend better against our style
In a final 2011, Man Utd played 442 flat.
Without a defensive midfielder between two lines.
Their 2 central midfielders were 38 years old granny Giggs and 30 years old slow-ish Carrick.
And those 2 were supposed to cope against Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta plus Messi dropping deep.
Of course that we have Tiki-Taka'd them till death.
Today every single midtable La Liga team plays a stronger defense against us than Man Utd and Champions league teams in 2011.
Barca's style of play FORCED the opponents to change.
And the opponents learned, changed and evolved over time.
But Barca and Spain haven't evolved and they are trying to copy that style which was too powerful, but before the opponents have figured us out.
Even current Barca would kill Man Utd from 2011 with Giggs, Carrick and no defensive midfielder.
Even during Pep, the only 3 teams who tried to play a stronger, tighter, bus-parking defense, were Chelsea in 2009, Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012, and they all caused us a lot of problems.
After 2012, more or less, every single club in the world started to play against us like Inter and Chelsea.
And we haven't evolved too much.
Plus, we even became weaker in technical quality.
Also, when people say that RM plays like us.
No way.
They evolved.
They have a strong killer central defensive midfielder.
They play way faster and more direct.
In attack, they can score with feet and head (at least while they had CR7).
Spanish NT team plays way more closer to Barca than Real Madrid.
And in a knockout champions league matches, it seems that Spain's and Barca's style from 2008-2012 is not working anymore.
NOT only because of Rakitic and weaker midfield.
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fergus90
Senior Member
No I agree completely, we've met them in the middle. Teams are so hungry to beat Barca, press us like crazy in knockouts but we don't have the capacity to deal with it. It's happened a lot in recent seasons. The Atletico Madrid away match in 15/16 was the last CL away game where we did create some chances (albeit less than Madrid), the others we've been blown away or lucky in the case of the Chelsea 1-1. I'm glad we got Arturo Vidal because he has the fight,passion and tenacity that has been missing when it's backs against the wall.
Busquets/Rakitic/Countinho would suffer the exact same fate again.
Well-stated. I seldom agree with your posts, but this is post is very accurate.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../aug/15/barcelona-la-masia-messi-xavi-iniesta
The subject of Real’s ruthlessly destructive victory over Liverpool in May’s Champions League final crops up. Can Barça’s goalposts be moved when considering “the way we win”? “I think sometimes, we maybe need our [Sergio] Ramos too,” Carmona concedes. “ Because Barça in the last five seasons, in four of them [we have been] eliminated in the quarter-final in Europe. So we have to think about, maybe, our way to play is a good option to win the Spanish league – Barça won seven of the last 10 leagues. But maybe not enough to compete in Europe, because opponents have very big players.”
Even the guy in charge of LA Masia is questioning whether our style can be successful in Europe.
The subject of Real’s ruthlessly destructive victory over Liverpool in May’s Champions League final crops up. Can Barça’s goalposts be moved when considering “the way we win”? “I think sometimes, we maybe need our [Sergio] Ramos too,” Carmona concedes. “ Because Barça in the last five seasons, in four of them [we have been] eliminated in the quarter-final in Europe. So we have to think about, maybe, our way to play is a good option to win the Spanish league – Barça won seven of the last 10 leagues. But maybe not enough to compete in Europe, because opponents have very big players.”
Even the guy in charge of LA Masia is questioning whether our style can be successful in Europe.
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