Bayern München

Crews

New member
and in 2010 as well, it was really unecessary, especially considering what we were going through at the time

Having lost the CL final in 2010, losing in the CL final at their home arena last year as well as being runners up in every domestic cup and title to Dortmund. In 2013 Heynckes took the team to the next level by bringing in Martinez and Mandzukic and implementing collective counter-pressing. Bayern had just crushed the number one team in the world (talking about you guys) and Juventus, without conceding a goal in the process. The team felt they were unstoppable and could finally get the treble and the most valued one, the Henkelpot, which had evaded them for so long and the club legends( Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Robben, Ribery etc.) had everything else but it and this year felt truly theirs (third time's the charm etc.)

I don't think anyone can quite cope with what the Bayern team felt, celebrating in front of their own fans who had suffered the same during the last few years was the right thing to do. They didn't celebrate Tito's illness or the misery of the cules but that they were on their road to winning the treble after all the bad years.

As an off-topic, I'm not quite sure what to make of you; trolling on Bayern Zone among your other virtues reminds me of the warning not to feed the troll but I hope the main post clears things out for the clash of our teams in 2013.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
I don't think anyone can quite cope with what the Bayern team felt, celebrating in front of their own fans who had suffered the same during the last few years was the right thing to do. They didn't celebrate Tito's illness or the misery of the cules


If anyone really thinks that, he or she needs to get his or her head examined ASAP.
 

D10S_JC

Member
Javi Martinez is the world class DM, Lahm and Alaba are the world class fullback, Gotez is one of the most talented youngsters. They're all struggled under Pep' system.
 

Crews

New member
Javi Martinez is the world class DM, Lahm and Alaba are the world class fullback, Gotez is one of the most talented youngsters. They're all struggled under Pep' system.

Point on, Bayern trashed Barca in 2013 because they had evolved from the possession-style but Barca didn't, Now Pep has brought the style back from grave while Enrique has done an amazing job evolving Barca and Bayern are suffering the consequences of it. Lewandowski and Götze back in Dortmund thrived of the fast paced style, playing quick passes in the tight space. Robben, Ribery and Müller are suited for such a style as well. The current system takes away their edge and makes them mediocre.
 

DrPepper

New member
Maybe. But how well would Heynckes Bayern do without Ribery, Robben, Martinez and Alaba in that Treble season? Seems to me that all the blame is shifted on Guardiola and that's extremely harsh.
 

Crews

New member
Maybe. But how well would Heynckes Bayern do without Ribery, Robben, Martinez and Alaba in that Treble season? Seems to me that all the blame is shifted on Guardiola and that's extremely harsh.

Better question is, how would a great coach manage such a scenario? Insist on using his one and only philosophy that hasn't actually existed in 3 years that in theory requires XI consisting of the worlds best players that are made for such a system, which the coach X didn't have or modify his tactics due to having most of his key-players out to a more defensive style so his team wouldn't get humiliated. Jupp never had such a situation IIRC but Pep has proven to be too stubborn/one-trick pony. Allegedly Pep has also rushed the players too early and trained them too hard which isn't that hard to believe because a injury-crisis of this magnitude cannot be purely coincidence. But for that I have no proof so I won't blame him for that until proven guilty.
 

DrPepper

New member
Better question is, how would a great coach manage such a scenario? Insist on using his one and only philosophy that hasn't actually existed in 3 years that in theory requires XI consisting of the worlds best players that are made for such a system, which the coach X didn't have or modify his tactics due to having most of his key-players out to a more defensive style so his team wouldn't get humiliated. Jupp never had such a situation IIRC but Pep has proven to be too stubborn/one-trick pony. Allegedly Pep has also rushed the players too early and trained them too hard which isn't that hard to believe because a injury-crisis of this magnitude cannot be purely coincidence. But for that I have no proof so I won't blame him for that until proven guilty.

Pep did show against Dortmund for example that he was indeed able to play a more defensive system. Maybe he thought that it wasn't a good idea against Barcelona since everyone pretty much knows that Dortmund struggle when they have no space to counter attack whereas Barcelona do well enough against a defensive team.

In the end, it just seems a result problem for me. If Pep tried to play a defensive game against us and lost 0-3 everyone would say that he's stupid for playing like that against Barca, that the players aren't used to playing like this and that Bayern should always try to play proper football and attack etc. Hindsight is 20/20.

And in all fairness Pep was able to contain Barcelona as much as possible since switching to a four man defence, until the best player of all time decided to end the match. I can't blame him for chasing the away goal either.
 

Crews

New member
Pep did show against Dortmund for example that he was indeed able to play a more defensive system. Maybe he thought that it wasn't a good idea against Barcelona since everyone pretty much knows that Dortmund struggle when they have no space to counter attack whereas Barcelona do well enough against a defensive team.

In the end, it just seems a result problem for me. If Pep tried to play a defensive game against us and lost 0-3 everyone would say that he's stupid for playing like that against Barca, that the players aren't used to playing like this and that Bayern should always try to play proper football and attack etc. Hindsight is 20/20.

And in all fairness Pep was able to contain Barcelona as much as possible since switching to a four man defence, until the best player of all time decided to end the match. I can't blame him for chasing the away goal either.

Perhaps, but the fact to the matter is that Pep got the best squad in Bayern history and failed in the big matches. The big European 3 aka Bayern, Real and Barca were really the meter for many since the German teams are struggling at the moment. And last 3 SF matches against Bayern's biggest opponents ended conceding 8 goals and scoring none, in the last match against Barcelona Bayern didn't even have a shot at your goal. That is unacceptable and any other Bayern coach throughout the history would have been sacked for such a result.
 

StarLord

New member
When Pep came to Bayern he said he will continue from where Jupp left us but he lied and implemented his own surreal philosophy. The style works if the opponent is shit (Shaktar, Porto, Roma and that away game against Manchester City when Pellegrini played with two strikers and let Bayern have man advantage in the middle which allowed Bayern to use "tiki-taka" effectively.) According to some sources the differences with HMW were that the "if the player will need to rest for two weeks before they are fit then Pep wants them back in the class in one week." The stubbornness; high defensive line, insane formations and players playing out of their positions and the overall phlegmatism that quite frankly reeks out of the team is disgusting. last three UCL SF we have conceded 8 goals and scored none, last night we didn't even shoot once at your goal. And last but least the "Spanish invasion", Alonso was good for the first half but since then he's been tired and hazardous and everyone can see that but he still plays every god damn game. Bernat... I don't even have any expectations for him but somehow he always manages to do worse, even when Alaba was fit this guy played so Pep could try out new positions for Alaba. It's like if Enrique would buy Bendtner and put Suarez/Messi as right back, poking an anthill and see what happens type of thing. I don't consider myself spoiled, I'd have no problems losing to anyone having played a good game but Bayern plays shit at the highest level every time because tiki-taka doesn't work anymore. If you have a lot of injuries and your key-players are out you change the damn tactics, Ancelotti, Heynckes, Mourinho (does it anyway), SAF would have played more defensively and tried to score on the counter but Guardiola is a one-trick pony and no matter what he has to control the possession and have his high-line (I think these two actually helped you guys more than it did us).

No, I think that the 12/13 treble just got to your head and caused some serious vertigo.

The fact that most people (especially Bayern fans) thought that Real Madrid was an inferior side to Bayern last year was at least one of the reasons for their undoing. Like I said last year, Real Madrid had the upper hand in a player for player comparison, and even if Bayern were the better unit, the prospect of defeat was more than possible. This is something that most people forgot before that semi. Once Real Madrid got that hard-fought 1-0 home victory, the stage was set for Bayern's elimination from the CL. 1-0 against a mighty team is a lot worse than most people seem to realize. As soon as Ramos hammered that first header home, the tie was wrapped up. Your players then promptly imploded against a super-pacy counter-attacking team that had a field day.

Bayern was never as good as most people thought they were in recent years. Just look at the trouble they had against Arsenal/United/away Shakhtar/away Porto.

As for this year's semi, the absence of Robben, coupled with Barca's supreme form decisively transformed BM into clear underdogs, and it was only due to good fortune that Bayern escaped unscathed until minute 77. Once the score became 1-0 (and with last season's semi fresh in Bavarian minds) there was no choice, and both Pep and the players knew it, an away goal became essential. Even so, Messi's 2nd goal did not come against a wide-open defense, far from it in fact. But his sheer genius inflicted a second mortal blow withing a 3 minutes. After that, it was do or die, simple as that. And Bayern died.


You also complain about your Spanish players. Well, do you have any better than them? I don't think you do. Bernat, Thiago and Alonso were your protagonists versus Porto imo.

All of Ancellotti/Heynckes/Mourinho/SAF have suffered nasty debacles in the CL time and again. It's the players (and luck) not "tactics" that decide games, despite all the media frenzy and Football Manager-generation imponderable prolixity.
 
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Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
As for this year's semi, the absence of Robben, coupled with Barca's supreme form decisively transformed BM into clear underdogs, and it was only due to good fortune that Bayern escaped unscathed until minute 77. Once the score became 1-0 (and with last season's semi fresh in Bavarian minds) there was no choice, and both Pep and the players knew it, an away goal became essential. Even so, Messi's 2nd goal did not come against a wide-open defense, far from it in fact. But his sheer genius inflicted a second mortal blow withing a 3 minutes. After that, it was do or die, simple as that. And Bayern died.

one can only laugh at you for your continued ill-belief that only Robben's abscence was critical to Bayern. Even seeing how Bernat set the stage for Barca's crushing victory by essentially gifting them the first two goals, which Alaba would most likely not have done in his place, still only makes you talk of Messi'S brilliance, ingnoring who made the respective situation possible in the first place.
 
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StarLord

New member
one can only laugh at you for your continued ill-belief that only Robben's abscence was critical to Bayern. Even seeing how Bernat set the stage for Barca's crushing victory by essentially gifting them the first two goals, which Alaba would most likely not have done in his place, still only makes you talk of Messi'S brilliance, ingnoring who made the respective situation possible in the first place.

Has Alaba never made a mistake under pressure before?

Edit: You also completely miss that fact that BM were extremely fortunate to be at 0-0 by the minute 77.
 
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Devils

Senior Member
Bayern are playing a pretty much full strength team for their game today.

Only exceptions are Dante, Weiser and Reina
 

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