Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

Observer

Banned
Pay no attention to midfield, bar Masche, they suck.

Look at their defensive stats please and tell me they are not star numbers. There's no Maldini, Puyol among them, but they are solid as a rock.

Its already been established their attacking players are probably among the best in the world.

So yea Argentina all-in-all has more quality in their squad, and not by little.
 
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Flavia

Guest
Pay no attention to midfield, bar Masche, they suck.

Look at their defensive stats please and tell me they are not star numbers. There's no Maldini, Puyol among them, but they are solid as a rock.

Its already been established their attacking players are probably among the best in the world.

So yea Argentina all-in-all has more quality in their squad, and not by little.

Argentina solid at the back? They were under sabella, who made miracles. They showed to be pretty vulnerable during copa. Didn't concede more because the opposition forwards were bad, and also Romero made great saves. Both FB's were weak, and only Otamendi is a decent CB. There's no quality at the back when abysmal Rojo is a starter.

Attacking wise, they're great on paper. But higuain is a choker, and so is aguero. That more quality claim is more based on reputation than reality. Portugal have a better team.
 

Morten

Senior Member
Did you watch the games? If you did, you'd know they're not good.

I havent watched them in this years copa, but their gd speaks for itself, and they didnt concede much either. The year before and WC they basically didnt concede at all. Its not a coincidence. I would argue that the defence carried Argentina even more than Messi in the WC for example.
 
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Flavia

Guest
I havent watched them in this years copa, but their gd speaks for itself, and they didnt concede much either. The year before and WC they basically didnt concede at all. Its not a coincidence. I would argue that the defence carried Argentina even more than Messi in the WC for example.

In the wc, under Sabella. Not in this copa. Their defense is awful. Rojo is a starter. Funes Mori, Mercado... That should make this clear, but apparently it doesn't. As usual, stats are misleading.
 

Zico94

Banned
Argentina solid at the back? They were under sabella, who made miracles. They showed to be pretty vulnerable during copa. Didn't concede more because the opposition forwards were bad, and also Romero made great saves. Both FB's were weak, and only Otamendi is a decent CB. There's no quality at the back when abysmal Rojo is a starter.

Attacking wise, they're great on paper. But higuain is a choker, and so is aguero. That more quality claim is more based on reputation than reality. Portugal have a better team.

They're all chokers including Messi himself. I know people like to give Higuain all the blame for Argentina's final losses but it's not like Messi was setting those games alight. He himself missed clear cut chances in the WC final and missed the opening penalty in this year's Copa. They all play great (including Higuain) until they reach the final, so they're not "just good on paper." Only Aguero you could possibly argue isn't as good for his NT as he is for his club.
 

Morten

Senior Member
In the wc, under Sabella. Not in this copa. Their defense is awful. Rojo is a starter. Funes Mori, Mercado... That should make this clear, but apparently it doesn't. As usual, stats are misleading.

If they didnt concede much, they must have been doing something right. So its not like its Messi that has to do it all alone and his squadmates are shit, like some say.
 
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Flavia

Guest
They're all chokers including Messi himself. I know people like to give Higuain all the blame for Argentina's final losses but it's not like Messi was setting those games alight. He himself missed clear cut chances in the WC final and missed the opening penalty in this year's Copa. They all play great (including Higuain) until they reach the final, so they're not "just good on paper."

"They all play great". no, they don't. Venezuela toyed with argentina's defense in this copa, for an example. But they couldn't finish. Argentina's problems in attack are bigger than higuain, but he's the choke master. Tata as a coach didn't help one bit in the final. after chile got one player red carded, he didn't take advantage of that. He's a coward. With a better coach, they could've won one of the copa america finals they reached.

If they didnt concede much, they must have been doing something right. So its not like its Messi that has to do it all alone and his squadmates are shit, like some say.

You didn't watch the games, so it gets kinda hard to have a conversation about it. They didn't concede because the opposition players were bad at finishing, not because they were defending well.
 

Morten

Senior Member
In the wc, under Sabella. Not in this copa. Their defense is awful. Rojo is a starter. Funes Mori, Mercado... That should make this clear, but apparently it doesn't. As usual, stats are misleading.

Anyway, i never heard any praise(at least in here) over the solid defence unit that Argentina was in the world cup. It was the same talk as now, "Messi is good, the rest are bad":
 
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Flavia

Guest
Anyway, i never heard any praise(at least in here) over the solid defence unit that Argentina was in the world cup. It was the same talk as now, "Messi is good, the rest are bad":

Guess you weren't paying attention. Messi wasn't even that praised here for the wc either. People wanted to sell him.
 

NotInHere

New member
He isn't a pure #9 though is he? A pure #9 is someone like Higuain, Giroud, Gomez, Aduriz or Klose and he has FAR more to his game even at this advanced stage of his career than any of those players have ever had. Even in a declined state, he offers more to his team than most players and more than what people on this forum are giving him credit for. Even the supposed tap-ins and penalties he always scores is somehwat exaggerated and you only need to watch his top 10 goals in la liga alone this season to see this. So much variety in the goals.

And yes portugal's success was mostly due to their defensive approach but to say that he "he was far from the most decisive player for Portugal" is nonsensical as he literally saved them from elimination in the last group game with 2 goals and an assist in a 3-3 draw with Hungary whilst in the next round against Croatia was involved in the game winning goal. In addition to that, he acted as a great leader and put confidence in his teammates against Poland in the crucial penalty shoot-out and even went first and scored. Not to mention, he scored the opening goal in the semis and inadvertently assisted Nani for the 2nd to seal the game. Yes, I agree Pepe was overall the best player but that's a lot for someone who was "far from being decisive."

Messi and Argentina had a much easier route to the copa america final (even playing less games): facing minnows such as Panama and Bolivia in the group stage and Venezuela and USA in the KO rounds before meeting Chile in the final.

Virtually, every team CR and Portugal faced in the KO rounds were considerably stronger than any team Argentina played in the copa america barring Chile and this is with Portugal having a less talented team.
I honestly don't know why you say he has more to his game, his long distance shooting is completely gone, just look at how many shots he takes and the poor percentage of actually converting them, lets not even mention his inability to beat players now, or his freekicks. He basically lives inside the area looking for the final pass imo. Dude has decline too much to even be compared to Messi, hell its an insult tbh
 
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Flavia

Guest
Defense GD proves our point it in 3 different scenario contexts:

- WC 2014
- Copa America 2015
- Copa Centenario 2016

No, that's just stats misleading again. Anyone who watched argentina in this copa know they weren't good defensively. Keep up the trolling, though.
 

Icarium

Lifestealer
Argentina were good as a defensive unit at world cup especially. Nothing to argue there, that is the whole reason they even managed to reach the finals. Messi helped them get out of group stages from there on it is the defense with Masch at the heart of it. Their midfield and attack on the other hand are absolute shit even though they had some good names in the squad. Latest copa they scored a lot though but the opposition was pretty weak too.
 

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