Denis Suarez

[Sorin]

Did more in half an hour than Gomes did in 2 seasons.

Still think he is not Barca material and needs to be sold. However, with another coach we would have received more for Denis. We will probably settle in the 10 million range as it is. Maybe 15 at a push, with some luck.

 

[Icarium]

Denis always showed more talent than Gomes. If he took the minutes Gomes got maybe he would become a decent player. He just needs a coach who trusts him and he can be our next Roberto. He works and hard and some talent. Basically what I am saying is sell Gomes first not Denis.

 

[Joan]

This is typical Denis. As you know Suki will score a screamer after a terrible game, you know Denis will be gone missing after a good cameo.
When the opponent attacks you, gives you space, he'll look decent, good, even great at times but when you make it tight for him, make him play in a tactical setup he'll fail. Not because he's not smart enough or skillful but because he's too weak, can't keep the ball. If he could,he might reach very high level. But, as it is, most of us here could walk past him with the ball, not to mention professional footballers.

 

[Altomonte]

Denis performed very well during the minutes he played against Deportivo. Both Messi goals at the end were the result of Denis drives forward, passes to Suarez, and then Suarez assists.
We should give him more chances to show what he is capable of.

 

[Messi983]

Denis always showed more talent than Gomes. If he took the minutes Gomes got maybe he would become a decent player. He just needs a coach who trusts him and he can be our next Roberto. He works and hard and some talent. Basically what I am saying is sell Gomes first not Denis.

Minutes played in La Liga:
Gomes - 628
Denis - 515

Total minutes played:
Gomes - 1.185
Denis - 1.063

So Gomes has played around 100 minutes more. It's hardly favouring him like most people thinks.

But I don't know why even compare Gomes to Denis. They are different type of players who play different positions. Denis is a winger/wide midfielder and Gomes has been mostly utilised in Busi/Raki role since January so I don't think he's taking minutes away from Denis. Denis has to compete against much better players in Iniesta, Cou and Dembele so it's understandable why his playing time has diminished since the last two have arrived/come back from injury. Besides the fact that he didn't really show much whenever he started the game.

He can be useful coming off the bench in games like yesterday when Deportivo was throwing everything forward trying to win but most teams don't play like that against us. In his last start with "B team" against Celta (which was also an open game from both sides that should suit him well) he lost countless balls that lead to dangerous counterattacks but just because none of that lead to the goal he wasn't as scrutinized as Gomes. He was also easily pushed off the ball 5+ times in first 20-30 minutes (I've stopped to count after that) and that was against the team that is one of the most technical sides in La Liga. So we know what happened against more physical teams.

I understand why people who look only or mostly at his technical abilities like Denis (and to make sure, I don't "hate" him, in opposite, he was the player I was the most excited about from our 2016 signings after watching him playing well for Villarreal but he just disappointed me more than once) but what really hinder his progress are his physical limitations and this won't change even if we'd give him all Gomes's, Paulinho's and whoever else minutes.

 

[Joan]

[MENTION=20930]Messi983[/MENTION], may I ask you an honest question? What do you really think about Gomes? And what about Paulinho?

 

[Icarium]

Minutes played in La Liga:
Gomes - 628
Denis - 515

Total minutes played:
Gomes - 1.185
Denis - 1.063

So Gomes has played around 100 minutes more. It's hardly favouring him like most people thinks.

But I don't know why even compare Gomes to Denis. They are different type of players who play different positions. Denis is a winger/wide midfielder and Gomes has been mostly utilised in Busi/Raki role since January so I don't think he's taking minutes away from Denis. Denis has to compete against much better players in Iniesta, Cou and Dembele so it's understandable why his playing time has diminished since the last two have arrived/come back from injury. Besides the fact that he didn't really show much whenever he started the game.

He can be useful coming off the bench in games like yesterday when Deportivo was throwing everything forward trying to win but most teams don't play like that against us. In his last start with "B team" against Celta (which was also an open game from both sides that should suit him well) he lost countless balls that lead to dangerous counterattacks but just because none of that lead to the goal he wasn't as scrutinized as Gomes. He was also easily pushed off the ball 5+ times in first 20-30 minutes (I've stopped to count after that) and that was against the team that is one of the most technical sides in La Liga. So we know what happened against more physical teams.

I understand why people who look only or mostly at his technical abilities like Denis (and to make sure, I don't "hate" him, in opposite, he was the player I was the most excited about from our 2016 signings after watching him playing well for Villarreal but he just disappointed me more than once) but what really hinder his progress are his physical limitations and this won't change even if we'd give him all Gomes's, Paulinho's and whoever else minutes.

Denis obviously has things he needs to improve. Physicality is something that is easier to improve, I mean look at Dembele he looks much weaker. The coach doesn't have the confidence in him. In most cases I would trust him but the way he handled Dembele and semedo integration he is not the one to be trusted. Gomes doesn't fit in our team like at all. He is very slow, can not induce any creativity in the midfield. Gomes can be good maybe if he was playing in different football. Denis can shine in our system much better and he did many times. He has the potential to reach to the level of Roberto. Obviously he may not realize the potential and might stay shit always. But it is still better than giving a single minute to Gomes knowing that he will never fit this Barca team. I am not saying Denis is better or anything just that he is a better fit.

 

[Sorin]

Minutes played in La Liga:
Gomes - 628
Denis - 515

Total minutes played:
Gomes - 1.185
Denis - 1.063

So Gomes has played around 100 minutes more. It's hardly favouring him like most people thinks.

But I don't know why even compare Gomes to Denis. They are different type of players who play different positions. Denis is a winger/wide midfielder and Gomes has been mostly utilised in Busi/Raki role since January so I don't think he's taking minutes away from Denis. Denis has to compete against much better players in Iniesta, Cou and Dembele so it's understandable why his playing time has diminished since the last two have arrived/come back from injury. Besides the fact that he didn't really show much whenever he started the game.

He can be useful coming off the bench in games like yesterday when Deportivo was throwing everything forward trying to win but most teams don't play like that against us. In his last start with "B team" against Celta (which was also an open game from both sides that should suit him well) he lost countless balls that lead to dangerous counterattacks but just because none of that lead to the goal he wasn't as scrutinized as Gomes. He was also easily pushed off the ball 5+ times in first 20-30 minutes (I've stopped to count after that) and that was against the team that is one of the most technical sides in La Liga. So we know what happened against more physical teams.

I understand why people who look only or mostly at his technical abilities like Denis (and to make sure, I don't "hate" him, in opposite, he was the player I was the most excited about from our 2016 signings after watching him playing well for Villarreal but he just disappointed me more than once) but what really hinder his progress are his physical limitations and this won't change even if we'd give him all Gomes's, Paulinho's and whoever else minutes.

Have you heard about performance relative to position? You don't have to play the same position to compare the level of 2 players

 

[raki]

He deserves more chances.

 

[Messi983]

[MENTION=20930]Messi983[/MENTION], may I ask you an honest question? What do you really think about Gomes? And what about Paulinho?

I like them and have defended both for some time until I've realised I won't change people opinions on them so I've decided to not waste my time on that anymore.

Paulinho is a very useful squad player. I was among the minority here who was ready to give him a chance when he arrived and he's done better than anyone could really expect. But he's not your typical Barça midfielder and obviously can't control the game so people obsessed with controlling the midfield will mostly be disappointed with his contribution to the team. I don't expect those things from him because he's not that type of player. I think he was doing good at start of the season in wide midfielder role in 4-4-2 when he had more freedom to move around (with both Raki and Busi covering for him) but with Cou/Dembele arrivals/coming back from injury and on the other hand us not really having a capable replacement for Busi/Raki it's understandable EV has started to use him more in CM/DM roles which doesn't fit him as well because he's not as disciplined and tactically aware as he should be to play there. He still brings physicality (I don't think Roma debacle would've happened if he'd be brought into the game early in 2nd half for a clearly unfit Iniesta) and goals to our game though, something that our other midfielders don't so I think he can be useful when utilised correctly. Hopefully Arthur (and possibly another player) will be good enough to give rest to Raki/Busi and Paulinho will be used in a role that's more suited to him next season. I think he's done enough to earn (at least) another season here and will stay unless we'll get a very good offer.

I'm probably the only one but I think Gomes actually has shown improvement this season compared to the last one, had some good moments and overall solid games but it's obvious he's not a fit. I don't blame him for anything though because I think he's trying to do his best and when players are doing that and still don't succeed then I try not to be too harsh on them. I still believe he's a good young player and could see him succeed in another good/big team like Juventus or Tottenham so hopefully one of those teams will come with a good offer in summer. I also believe we'll get more than what most people expect because other teams still rate him higher than Barça fans. And I'll root for him wherever he'll go.

Denis obviously has things he needs to improve. Physicality is something that is easier to improve, I mean look at Dembele he looks much weaker. The coach doesn't have the confidence in him. In most cases I would trust him but the way he handled Dembele and semedo integration he is not the one to be trusted. Gomes doesn't fit in our team like at all. He is very slow, can not induce any creativity in the midfield. Gomes can be good maybe if he was playing in different football. Denis can shine in our system much better and he did many times. He has the potential to reach to the level of Roberto. Obviously he may not realize the potential and might stay shit always. But it is still better than giving a single minute to Gomes knowing that he will never fit this Barca team. I am not saying Denis is better or anything just that he is a better fit.

1. Dembele was out for half of the season and it was smart not to rush him back and get reinjured. I think EV handled his minutes well. Semedo could have played more but Roberto was just better offensively in first half of the season and with fullbacks having important role in our offense this was probably the main reason EV prefered him. Then when Semedo has improved in that aspect he got injured and was out for a month in March when we'd probably need him the most. Since coming back he has started most of the games. Sorry, but I just don't understand this "Dembele, Semedo treatment" theory and EV apparently not liking young players. He has done a great job developing players like Laporte, Inaki Williams, Yeray and others in Bilbao and I think given enough time he'll do the same here. This season was always meant to be used as adaptation period for Dembele and Semedo and then injuries also ruined their seasons, especially in Dembouz case.

2. Don't think Denis shined many times. He had two good sub appearances against Getafe all the way back in September and this last one vs Deportivo but that's about it. When he has started he was usually disappointing.

Have you heard about performance relative to position? You don't have to play the same position to compare the level of 2 players

I usually set my expectations about players based on their characteristics and don't compare players who are expected to do different things for the team.

 

[Joan]

I like them and have defended both for some time until I've realised I won't change people opinions on them so I've decided to not waste my time on that anymore.

Paulinho is a very useful squad player. I was among the minority here who was ready to give him a chance when he arrived and he's done better than anyone could really expect. But he's not your typical Barça midfielder and obviously can't control the game so people obsessed with controlling the midfield will mostly be disappointed with his contribution to the team. I don't expect those things from him because he's not that type of player. I think he was doing good at start of the season in wide midfielder role in 4-4-2 when he had more freedom to move around (with both Raki and Busi covering for him) but with Cou/Dembele arrivals/coming back from injury and on the other hand us not really having a capable replacement for Busi/Raki it's understandable EV has started to use him more in CM/DM roles which doesn't fit him as well because he's not as disciplined and tactically aware as he should be to play there. He still brings physicality (I don't think Roma debacle would've happened if he'd be brought into the game early in 2nd half for a clearly unfit Iniesta) and goals to our game though, something that our other midfielders don't so I think he can be useful when utilised correctly. Hopefully Arthur (and possibly another player) will be good enough to give rest to Raki/Busi and Paulinho will be used in a role that's more suited to him next season. I think he's done enough to earn (at least) another season here and will stay unless we'll get a very good offer.

I'm probably the only one but I think Gomes actually has shown improvement this season compared to the last one, had some good moments and overall solid games but it's obvious he's not a fit. I don't blame him for anything though because I think he's trying to do his best and when players are doing that and still don't succeed then I try not to be too harsh on them. I still believe he's a good young player and could see him succeed in another good/big team like Juventus or Tottenham so hopefully one of those teams will come with a good offer in summer. I also believe we'll get more than what most people expect because other teams still rate him higher than Barça fans. And I'll root for him wherever he'll go.

Thank you for your time and the answer.

I tend to agree with you on Paulinho. I'll admit that I never wanted him here before the start of the season, but now think that we needed a player like him.

 

[Barca83]

Gomes in the squad instead of him tomorrow

 

[raki]

Gomes in the squad instead of him tomorrow

I dont understand...

 

[BarçaBarça]

Denis isn't good enough for our team. Gomes isn't a fit for our team, but has shown more quality than Denis, tbh, just in another role and setup at Valencia.

Denis gets a lot of goodwill because he played for Barca B and people think he is La Masia, but I hope that the true La Masia-kid Alena takes both of their minutes next season - he is one with true potential who most fans can get behind, and I look forward to that. This Denis hype based on absolutely minimal glimpses of greatness during his time at Barca is getting tiresome.

 

[Barca83]

Denis isn't good enough for our team. Gomes isn't a fit for our team, but has shown more quality than Denis, tbh, just in another role and setup at Valencia.

Denis gets a lot of goodwill because he played for Barca B and people think he is La Masia, but I hope that the true La Masia-kid Alena takes both of their minutes next season - he is one with true potential who most fans can get behind, and I look forward to that. This Denis hype based on absolutely minimal glimpses of greatness during his time at Barca is getting tiresome.

1. It's hard to show more than minimal glimpses of greatness in such little playing time
2. Denis is far better than the likes of Gomes/Vidal who EV has given far more opportunities

Let's go back to September: we beat Eibar 6-1, Messi scores 4 as the false 9, Denis starts on the left, scores a goal, and plays very well. Next match EV goes back to 442 and drops him for Vidal. And you wonder why people think he hasn't been given a fair shot