Ernesto Valverde - V1

I fear the board will be forced to keep him if we go undefeated in the league and win the Copa Del Rey.

In normal circumstances I would never wish for Barca to lose or play badly but if it means getting rid of this coward I would be willing to sacrifice a couple league games and the CDR Final.

We're winning the league no matter what happens. I don't think a couple more wins plus another Copa trophy is worth bringing this guy back as manager next season, because to me anyways that would mean we're forfeiting the 2019 CL before it even it starts. We don't need a rocket scientist to win the league with Messi, but what we do need is a good manager to advance to the latter stages of the CL.

PSG gave Emery a second chance and look what happened to them. Need to cut our ties to this coward ASAP.
 

henias

New member
At least Lucho has some visionary, positive outlook for Barcelona's future and style of football. He brought in Rakitic, and nutured MSN into one of the most deadly force in football. Only downside is that he failed to get a replacement for our midfield and Dani Alves. For Valverde he is spoon fed all the resources but he doesnt even bother to use them. Semedo, Dembele, Mina these are all talents yet has been outcasted like fuck to make way for his favourite Andre Gomes. Not saying Lucho did great in the late seasons especially with his signings, but imagine what he can do with the signings we have now. For me, Valverde killed every last once of euphoria in watching Barcelona. It's so dull and he didnt change anything except instill an ultra defensive approach. He literally is still using the very limited starting 11 Lucho had (Roberto at right back, Andre Gomes). We are constantly going backwards.

If we want to change, we have to start from scratch again. Until Barto fucks off, I doubt we will progress in any way. By then it'll be post-Messi era. Things are looking bleak.
 

Devils

Senior Member
At least Lucho has some visionary, positive outlook for Barcelona's future and style of football. He brought in Rakitic, and nutured MSN into one of the most deadly force in football. Only downside is that he failed to get a replacement for our midfield and Dani Alves. For Valverde he is spoon fed all the resources but he doesnt even bother to use them. Semedo, Dembele, Mina these are all talents yet has been outcasted like fuck to make way for his favourite Andre Gomes. Not saying Lucho did great in the late seasons especially with his signings, but imagine what he can do with the signings we have now. For me, Valverde killed every last once of euphoria in watching Barcelona. It's so dull and he didnt change anything except instill an ultra defensive approach. He literally is still using the very limited starting 11 Lucho had (Roberto at right back, Andre Gomes). We are constantly going backwards.

If we want to change, we have to start from scratch again. Until Barto fucks off, I doubt we will progress in any way. By then it'll be post-Messi era. Things are looking bleak.

He also was a leader and an authority figure who didn't put up with bullshit.

Tactically he was limited, but I could at least respect his style, approach and mentality, even though he did get things wrong.

We've gone hundreds of miles backwards with the current coward on the sidelines
 
I have no clue why any one would keep raving and talking about real madrid when yesterday if it wasn't for a miracle late penalty it would have been the biggest choking act in the history as they would have lost a 3-0 lead with the second leg at there own ground, where was all those top players you are talking about yesterday?! we did not lose the game to roma cause we didn't have good players, or cause roma had better playesrs than us, we simply lost it cause of stupid EV tactics, and I truly believe that from the start many of our players did not like to play defensively, and he refused to change those tactics, we are barca we always play attacking game not matter wut the result is. as many said yesterday zidan saw that something is wrong and he made changes at half time.

If you want to refute my argument, provide reason. Don't come up with subjective statements such as "Barca is as good as RM team because they struggled".

I clearly mentioned the players they've in each position. It's crystal clear RM has best players in each position as well as in bench.

I haven't read too much of posts after Roma's defeat. Some guys quoted me, I didn't reply, not because I don't have an opinion or anything to say about EV, our tactics and similar, but because I am sad.
This is the dumbest defeat (for me) since Chelsea in 2005'.

I don't want to offend anyone, but seriously, YOU guys who are talking ONLY about tactics all the time and how we need to fix this or that, I think that you have a tunnel vision, that you are not looking at a bigger picture and that you are stubborn and naive, the same as Pep.

I see that some guys (Serghei) mentioned that TikiTaka hasn't been figured out at all and that it was just about US starting to play way weaker.
Come on guys, don't be naive.

Football is a sport where 2 teams play.
And how good you will be, is determined by:
1. your skills and tactics
2. and by opponent's skills and tactics

If you have some new tactics which is working well, in the beginning you will have awesome results.
But as a time will go by, you will be less and less effective because the opponents will LEARN how to neutralize you (and which they didn't know in the early days of your new tactics).
In short: of course that TikiTaka, and ALL other tactics EVER will be less and less effective over time and you will constantly need to add new things, new ideas and a plan B, C and D to your gameplan to counter the opponent who figured out your original gameplan.

For example, about EV's 442, it was clear that teams didn't know how to stop it early in the season, but in the last 2 matches, SMARTER coaches (Italian guys from Chelsea and Roma) played a simple 352 and caused insane problems to our 442.
After these 2 matches where Chelsea and Roma neutralized us, of course that more and more teams will start to play the same against EV's 442 and we will look more and more sterile in upcoming Months.
Now, the same as how TikiTaka defenders are saying: no, that tactic is not figured out. It is just about us who don't run or press as before...
I could reply: no, 442 has not been figured out, it is only about us. We are tired or whatever.
Well, we are tired, but still, 442 HAS BEEN figured out now and it will be harder and harder in upcoming Months.

Also, the thing I don't get with majority of users here is that "tunnel vision" how all problems will disappear if we just "tweak" our tactics.
No offense, but wtf and lol.
Football and any sport is played on so many levels, I will just randomly splash some of elements here:
1. tactics
2. physical skills like pace, strength, height, stamina
3. about stamina, rotating players and saving energy for April and May
4. mental strength and a psychological preparation for a match
5. injuries and injury proneness
6. chemistry between players and automatism
7. experience of players
8. experience of a coach
9. overall motivation and a hunger of a team

I mean, we could hire Pep tomorrow (since he surely knows how to set up our play, right?), I am almost 99% sure that we would be equally as shit in a CL even with Pep, against AM, Juve, Roma, Chelsea, Bayern, against any physical team.
Further, majority of you guys act as if football works like this (these ARE my estimated numbers, NOT a fact):
Tactics 50%
Technical skills 45%
Physique of players 5%

Lol, seriously lol.
I would say more like:
Tactics 50%
Technical skills 30%
Physique 20%

Majority of you are totally underestimating an importance of physique in a modern football.
Have you watched Roma/Chelsea vs Barca:
1. Barca has the slowest midfield between ALL top teams.
Busi is a turtle, Raki is a turtle, Iniesta is not even a turtle. A turtle is way faster than Iniesta.
2. but it is not only about pace, let's go to strength in duels and everything.
Iniesta is the lightest players out there. Especially this granny Iniesta who is tired, slow, short and physically weak.
Raki is a taller and stronger guy. But he is still very slow.
Busi is taller, but he never went to a gym in his life.
He is very weak in lots of duels and his arial strength is nonexistent.

Now, a lot of guys will say that physique doesn't matter at all (well, it doesn't matter if you are Messi or Xavi. But if you are a regular player, then you are in problems against players of the same technique as you, but who are faster and stronger than you).
This is Roma's team which beat us 3:0:
Schick 186
Dzeko 193
Kolarov 187
Strootman 187
De Rossi 184
Nainggolan 176
Florenzi 173
Jesus 185
Manolas 189
Fazio 195

For example, at set pieces and corners, who will jump against Roma's guys?
Pique 194
Busquets 189
Rakitic 184
Luis Suarez 182
Umtiti 182

Lol:
Roberto 178
Semedo 178
Iniesta 171
Messi 170
Jordi Alba 170

So, we have only 2 guys taller than 185 (Pique and Busquets who can't jump).
And we needed to mark at corners:
Fazio 195
Dzeko 193
Manolas 189
Strootman 187
Kolarov 187
Schick 186
Jesus 185

So, we have 2 tall players.
They have 7 tall players.
It is a miracle how we conceded only 1 goal after corners and crosses.

Further, do you remember how we played during all 90 minutes?
Mats has the ball, he passes it to someone out of back 4.
Busi is marked, Raki is marked since Roma has 5 midfielders compared to our 3 guys (and Roberto hogging the touchline to prevent crosses).
And our defenders were just hoofing the balls forward.

And what happened forward, lol?
Our 3 most attacking players were Luis 182 cm, Messi 170 cm and Iniesta 171 cm.
And they lost like 100 arial duels and Roma was just gaining back possession every time.
So:
1. we had the ball. we lose the ball after 10 seconds.
2. then Roma attacks.
3. then we have the ball for 10 seconds, and we can't do anything either with feet or with head and we just lose the ball over and over and Roma was able to attack like crazy all the time.
Also, if anyone will watch a reply later, try to see how many arial duels we lost and how many loose balls we lost.
Roma's players were faster and stronger at every loose ball.
We were nowhere.
Our turtles couldn't run and win balls.
And our players couldn't jump and win any single arial duel

I know, 90% of you will now reply (I will kill myself, seriously): if we had better midfielders, we would control the match better (lol).
Well, this is not Getafe.
In a CL matches against physical teams who are both good technically (AM, Bayern, Roma, Juve) and who are better in physical skills than us, things like this will happen often.
In 2013: Tito was sick, a physical+technical Bayern won 7:0
In 2014: you will blame Tata, as a bad coach. You won't blame our slow, short and weak players who couldn't do anything against AM's thugs.
In 2016: AM again. But you will all blame Lucho. It is not about being short, slow and weak.
In 2017: Psg and Juve have ate us alive. Way faster, taller and stronger teams again.
In 2018: Roma. You will all blame dumb EV. No one will blame physically the shortest top team on a planet. Or the only top team consisted of turtles. Or the only top team in which half of players has never seen a gym.
I mean, against Roma, we had Iniesta and Busi, both with zero muscles against Nainggolan and Strootman, for example.
Also, why WE can't buy players like Strootman (or that type of players), who both have some physique and awesome technical skills?
We have Busi without muscles, we have Iniesta without muscles, we just bought a 160M Coutinho who looks like a 13 years old kid and our next signing is a 172cm Arthur.
Also, we are on a verge of signing another weaker player, Griezmann.

Do you guys think that Juve, Roma, Bayern or other teams would buy 3 short midfielders in a span of 6 Months?

Look at Roma:
1. they can play a possession, shortpassing football because they have good technical playmakers like Strootman and Pjanic, who are similar to Barca's level of midfielders.
But, their players are way faster and stronger and they can play both possession, counters, crosses and score after corners.
While Barca can play only possession and some counters. We can't play long balls, we can't play crosses, we can't score of defend after corners.
Juve, Liverpool, Bayern, Real: they can all play:
1. possession like Barca
2. counters, better than Barca
3. crosses from wings and score some headers, unlike Barca
4. score after corners, unlike Barca
5. defend corners and crosses, unlike Barca

So, majority of guys here only talk about fckg tactics all the time, and they are neglecting other aspects of the game.
No wonder that our board and coaches are equally as outdated.

Anyway, my short wishlist for the future of Barca:
1. find a better tactics
2. have 2-3 tactical solutions for different opponents
3. buy SOME faster, stronger, taller midfielders and attackers
4. open a gym at Camp Nou. That would be a revolution at our club, lol
5. buy a 185cm tall central forward with good technical skills who could play both a possession football and score headers after crosses (Lewa, Benzema style and similar)
6. do something about our mental strength and complacency
7. if possible, NOT to play CDR with Messi and starters anymore. As always: Barca is laughing at RM in February when they lose to Leganes in a CDR (lol, so rigged) and then RM laughs at us in April and May when we can't run in a CL and we are dead tired and they are winning a CL year after year.

Fc Barca currently:
1. a one dimensional team because we can't move away from Cruijff's and Pep's legacy
2. a team with the shortest set of players among Top teams
3. a team with the slowest set of midfielders among Top teams
4. a team with the physically weakest set of players among top teams. Please guys, hit a gym from time to time
5. the most naive team in terms of rotations and playing CDR

If I don't reply to all replies about this post, that is NOT because I don't know what to answer, but because I am sad and down now, and yet 90% of Barcelonistas would only tweak tactics (lol), so to some extent, why even bother?
(We have to go back to 433 with Coutinho/Verratti/Arthur/Alena/insert a random 170cm technical player, and we will get back to a glory days. Oh no, we sooooo won't.)

Midfield is the most important division of a modern football team. The team with the best midfield is always the favourites to win the titles irrespective of the height of the midfielders. Watch Spain thrashing every team this WC.

He isn't getting sacked it seems after all.

Why do you think so?
 

Devils

Senior Member
Tactics are one thing, mentality is another. You can have shitty tactics but if your mentality is right it can get you through.

Valverde's mentality is what is to blame. He went in with the mentality of us being a small club going into Rome. And fuck him for that.

It's like he didn't watch our comebacks against Milan or PSG. Teams that got a big first game advantage but then went into the second leg scared as pussies to guard their precious result as opposed to playing football.

Look at his quotes in the press conference before the game, he specifically said:

"It's not over, I know Roma can turn this around"

Now it's one thing to say this kind of thing in a press conference out of respect for the opposition or to not show over confidence. But it can also be said out of fear because there are really doubts in the managers head about giving up a 4-1 lead.

And the team he fielded and the tactics he implemented really showed his quotes were out of fear. He went into Rome looking to guard a 4-1 scoreline out of fear as opposed to playing a confident game of football. Basically projected his fear into the tactics and mentality onto the team.

Valverde's approach is EXACTLY that of which I would expect from if a team like Everton or Betis were to play in the CL and get a good result against a top 4 side at home and then go into the second leg out of fear of guarding it and praying to hold off and advance.

Say what you want about his tactics or undefeated run in the league, but this mentality is TOXIC and it needs to go.

A total coward.
 
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BarçaBarça

New member
Tactics are one thing, mentality is another. You can have shitty tactics but if your mentality is right it can get you through.

Valverde's mentality is what is to blame. He went in with the mentality of us being a small club going into Rome. And fuck him for that.

It's like he didn't watch our comebacks against Milan or PSG. Teams that got a big first game advantage but then went into the second leg scared as pussies to guard their precious result as opposed to playing football.

Look at his quotes in the press conference before the game, he specifically said:

"It's not over, I know Roma can turn this around"

Now it's one thing to say this kind of thing in a press conference out of respect for the opposition or to not show over confidence. But it can also be said out of fear because there are really doubts in the managers head about giving up a 4-1 lead.

And the team he fielded and the tactics he implemented really showed his quotes were out of fear. He went into Rome looking to guard a 4-1 scoreline out of fear as opposed to playing a confident game of football. Basically projected his fear into the tactics and mentality onto the team.

Valverde's approach is EXACTLY that of which I would expect from if a team like Everton or Betis were to play in the CL and get a good result against a top 4 side at home and then go into the second leg out of fear of guarding it and praying to hold off and advance.

Say what you want about his tactics or undefeated run in the league, but this mentality is TOXIC and it needs to go.

A total coward.

I agree that the mentality of "We need to be careful about Roma" and the likes is totally useless if it doesn't transform into a well-motivated team!
It doesn't matter one bit that you don't underestimate the opposition if you can't take the consequence of that point..
 

Vilarrubi

New member
Tactics are one thing, mentality is another. You can have shitty tactics but if your mentality is right it can get you through.

Valverde's mentality is what is to blame. He went in with the mentality of us being a small club going into Rome. And fuck him for that.

It's like he didn't watch our comebacks against Milan or PSG. Teams that got a big first game advantage but then went into the second leg scared as pussies to guard their precious result as opposed to playing football.

Look at his quotes in the press conference before the game, he specifically said:

"It's not over, I know Roma can turn this around"

Now it's one thing to say this kind of thing in a press conference out of respect for the opposition or to not show over confidence. But it can also be said out of fear because there are really doubts in the managers head about giving up a 4-1 lead.

And the team he fielded and the tactics he implemented really showed his quotes were out of fear. He went into Rome looking to guard a 4-1 scoreline out of fear as opposed to playing a confident game of football. Basically projected his fear into the tactics and mentality onto the team.

Valverde's approach is EXACTLY that of which I would expect from if a team like Everton or Betis were to play in the CL and get a good result against a top 4 side at home and then go into the second leg out of fear of guarding it and praying to hold off and advance.

Say what you want about his tactics or undefeated run in the league, but this mentality is TOXIC and it needs to go.

A total coward.

+1

I think he went for 4-4-2... thought flood the midfield and cruise the game out with no chance of a comeback with a 3-0 deficit. Probably thought we would draw or scrape a win.

How many times this season have we started games without attacking, the amount of 0-0 at half time, so un-Barca like.

Also found it funny (in a not funny way) that when they scored the 3rd we THEN decided to attack and actually got up the pitch for the first time in 85 minutes.. we had the ability but our players arrogance even at 2-0 thought there’s no chance that a small team like Roma would comeback, we had our eyes on the semi final already Imo... me included. The joke is on us.
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
Something that doesn't get mentioned but its really hard to win a top domestic league like La Liga or the PL and performing week in week out and then be at your best when the CL knockoutfase starts.
You have to have either good depth or just be superior to the competition and barça isn't that anymore.
It was always going to be hard to win both and a treble almost impossible.
Its no coincidence that the only teal in the final 4 that will win the league is bayern who win the bundesliga by default each year.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Something that doesn't get mentioned but its really hard to win a top domestic league like La Liga or the PL and performing week in week out and then be at your best when the CL knockoutfase starts.
You have to have either good depth or just be superior to the competition and barça isn't that anymore.
It was always going to be hard to win both and a treble almost impossible.
Its no coincidence that the only teal in the final 4 that will win the league is bayern who win the bundesliga by default each year.

Yea. It's tough. That is why you need a manager who rotates very well and who is willing to trust young players. It's embarassing that Alena has played 0 La Liga minutes this season. Absolutely embarassing that we didn't give him a go in some games and rested Iniesta. We instead played players who aren't even going to be here next season most likely.

Still, Valverde needs to go 1000%. I'd have stayed with him after this humiliation if he would've at least played good football. But to park the bus away to Roma and lose 3-0 that's insulting for the tradition of this club, for the fans, for Barca's image as the premiere club of the last 15 years or so.
 
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fergus90

Senior Member
It’s inexcusable, and not to react until the 81st minute only to bring on Gomes, who has not once changed a game when coming on.

Truly we’ve played well a maximum of 5 times this season. As great as a double is, he’ll never escape this champions league humiliation. Realistically this 3-0 beating could of happened a few times but luck was on our side.

Ultimately he’s too cautious and timid in his approach to be in charge of so many great attacking players.

The most frustrating thing was when he finally decided he had to take a risk with 5 minutes to go, we attacked and they looked shaky straight away. Attack has always been the best form of defence.

I would of excused him if this was Bilbao protecting a 4-1 lead at the camp nou, but he’s manager of Barcelona. He’s got to change or go, simple as that.
 
[tw]984441100403388416[/tw]

If this is true I hope we get battered in the Copa final and a couple league matches. Just get enough points to secure the title, nothing more.

Media still not putting enough heat on him for that embarrassing loss.

He will stay on unless he loses the Copa and a few home matches where the crowd audibly jeers and whistles the team.
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
[tw]984441100403388416[/tw]

If this is true I hope we get battered in the Copa final and a couple league matches. Just get enough points to secure the title, nothing more.

Media still not putting enough heat on him for that embarrassing loss.

He will stay on unless he loses the Copa and a few home matches where the crowd audibly jeers and whistles the team.

Morons. Emery II. incoming.
 

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