Ernesto Valverde - V1

Zidane82

Well-known member
Think i posted this elsewhere but this is how i think EV will play this season. Defending in a 4-4-2, Attacking with 3-4-3.

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1702887_FC_Barcelona.jpg


I'd like to see those line ups with Vidal in place of Rakitic and Malcom in place of Suarez ...

Ahh, yes...

They over-hyped hysteric, who excited at first, then failed at Sevilla. Then did nothing than being bailed out by Messi with Argentina - lets get him at all cost :rolleyes:

Wish we'd have gone with Bielsa !

Somebody just said he's the first manager in 40 years to win the first three games (with Leeds ) ... it could be fake but they are winning and playing fabulously well .
 

George_Costanza

Active member
I have so much respect for Bielsa but he won't last in Barcelona for more than a season. Can you imagine an idealist with an intermittent explosive disorder working with Segura or Barto?

We missed Tuchel and Sarri train. Both would have been a good fit for Barcelona. Other choices Roberto Martinez, Quique Setien and even Thierry Henry can be considered.
 

DennyCrane

Senior Member
Very rarely so. It's not generally true that we have many moments when pass is available but we lack players to make it. Basically, it's not great service that we're lacking. What we're lacking is teammate access. A player like Arthur or Semedo carrying the ball simply does not have viable passing options because we have some grade A lazy players who just stopped giving any shit when there is an opponent willing to dig very deep and give extra effort. Every time the other team ups the intensity, some of our senior players just go missing in a shameful way. Main culprits are Suarez, Messi, and Busi.




We rarely play ballsy short passes because there is no movement to make those passes consistently manageable. Again, player quality is a non-issue. Best squad in the world probably atm. The big issue is not that we lack ballsy players to make those passes. It's that the attacking players have way too much freedom to do basically whatever they want. Messi and Suarez have too much freedom and Valverde is a total spineless clown for accepting their chaotic movement.



What are ballsy short passes? You mean passes that have maybe a 50-50 success rate? Those are ballsy passes? We are not equipped to deal with fast counters that might come from all of those failed passes. You're basically talking about the EPL style here. EPL teams have almost no risk-management tactics. Everything is ballsy as you say it. The solution is not to play ballsy passes. The solution is to move off the ball and make those passes look not that ballsy anymore.



Agree here. But then this is probably what is wanted. Or else, why would you allow Messi to drop deep and do that? It's obvious that when Messi drops deep he is passed to no matter what.


About your theory that there are passes that are available but somehow we lack courage, here is a full action build-up from the back up until the ball is lost. Now look at this and tell me if we're lacking ballsy passes or we're simply lacking support for the man on the ball.

positional.jpg


Photo 1)

Pique has the ball and plays a simple, usual pass, to Semedo.

Photo2)

Semedo receives and goes forward a bit, trying to figure out what to do. He is not pressed initially.

Photo3)

There is a great pass option available down the line. But Messi and Suarez don't care. They aren't even facing the game. They walk. Messi in particular is walking with his face down as per the image.

It is especially interesting how easy it is to mark Messi. Here he is marked with 2 players, and only 1 player does tight marking. Another player just stands between the ball and Messi, basically hiding Messi from Semedo's vision with his cover shadow.

Players can mark Messi this way and still press the ball carrier. Basically it's a two man job that, if done right, has very very high chances of blocking Messi. Just watch him and stay in front of him. He will not move very fast, so it is not very hard to track his movement and place yourself in front of him. Very rarely will he move left and right to get out of this situation. If he, for some reason, does move, have another player nearby who can intervene.

Semedo sees he has no option and passes the ball to Arthur. Other option would've been to bomb the flank on his own dribbling 2-3 Sevilla players with ease. But this, sadly, isn't FIFA on semipro level.



Photo 4)

Arthur receives and does the same thing as Semedo. Looks up to see who can he play with. Now if someone could explain me, what pass is there in picture no4 and Arthur doesn't use it? Messi and Suarez are still not showing any intent in participating. Messi is even with his back to the ball carrier.

Ball is, logically, played to the open man, Alba.


Photo 5)

Here Alba doesn't see, or he is instructed not to be adventurous, that his marker has gone towards Coutinho too soon, basically allowing Alba to drift inside if possible. But Messi and Suarez are still not moving to help anyone.

Photo 6)

Now ball is very much isolated with Coutinho on the left sideline. At this point, even if they want in on the action Messi and Suarez can't participate. This allows Sevilla to lay off the marking on them and crowd the left side.

Photo 7)

Sevilla closes that zone, ball is played back in midfield, where Messi goes way back to receive the ball and try some fancy lofted ball which against serious teams has never worked in years.

Great post.

Also, the way Sevilla defends this towards the end of that attacking move is very risky. They play ultra-compact and switch their entire squad towards the side close to the ball, which leaves their entire left flank wide open. Look at the space Semedo has in front of him in pics 7 and 8. One well placed deep forward pass into this what I will now refer to as Dani-Alves-space and Semedo making a run for it then the compactness is gone in the middle and they have to reorganize fast, which they probably can't.
When teams switch their defense to the side close to the ball this heavily, the attacking team must use the space created on the opposite wing. This isn't rocket science.
 

RMU ReBorn

New member
1. who were top managers then in the last 30 years?
Only Pep, Cruijff and MAYBE Rijkaard and Van Gaal.
Why are we hiring bad managers all the time then?

2. also, other managers, except Pep, will try to introduce a different playing style.
Our board and fans don't want that.
So, basically, we can only buy coaches who will play somewhat similar to our style (even though people will say that EV is nothing like Barca. But hey, he played 433 and possession. Majority of other coaches wouldn't want to play that).
The only good coach for our style is Pep.
Other similar coaches are risky and not proven in bigger teams and their only pro is: their teams played beautiful (and they weren't winning titles).
For example, Sarri, I don't believe that he will bring titles now to Chelsea.
And I don't want to enter into a debate again: whether it is better to play beautiful and end as a 2nd in La Liga or play EV's ugly 442 and win a title.
The best option would be to play beautiful and win a title, but it is not that simple.

3. also, what other managers would you like to see here?
Sorry for mentioning the past (I don't like these type of posts from anyone), but 80% of our forum were raving about Sampaoli as our savior 2 years ago.
Weren't you one of them?

2 years later, that guy is a clown and a way weaker manager than EV with his "ugly" football.

On the other hand, maybe our players are not as good as people think.
Messi can't do anything with Argentina or on a CL level lately. With 2 different teams.
Busi & Iniesta can't do anything with Spain/Barca since 2012, more or less. 2 different teams.
Suarez is a shadow of his former self.

These guys were our core players in the last 2-3 seasons.
I mean, are we really THAT good as people think?

I still think that EV is not as bad as people think.
Imo, majority of you are overrating quality of our players.
Our old players are drained, slow grannies.
And our young guys are nowhere near as what majority of you think in terms of quality and actual end product (Dembele, Arthur, Semedo etc).

The only time EVER when 433 worked like a charm was during Pep, with a best generation ever, and all players were young.
Under Rijkaard, 433 with Ronaldinho-Etoo-Xavi-Deco-Messi won only 2 La ligas out of 5.
And 1 CL out of 5.

So, Rijkaard's era wasn't actually any better than Lucho's and EV's era, except that we played beautiful for 2 years under Rijkaard.
But, even Lucho had 12 Months of beauty...

So, my point is: who exactly was a great coach except Pep and Cruijff?
And, also, people are still comparing everything with Pep's era.
EV's Barca didn't play THAT ugly.
but we did play ugly compared to Pep's Barca.
But then again, how to replicate Pep's Barca without Xavi, Iniesta, Busi, Messi, Alves?
No, Arthur, Alena, Rakitic, old Busi, old Messi won't do the trick, not even close. Even with 5 Peps on the bench.
Only Rijkaard did wonders with an average midfield . Basically won CL with Van Bommel , Edmilson and Deco in mid . Not saying that they are bad or average . They were never world beaters . Van Gaal did won us the titles and had vision but he was the same guy whom should be responsible for Rivaldo's departure and the way he treated Riquelmi was pathetic . He was also the one who said Pique would never become a good CB . You can talk all day about philosophy and all when you have goat players at the peak of their prowess to execute that . Off all managers with such philosophy Bielsa deserves the credit more than anyone .

Look what he has done to Leeds . They were rotting in second division . Now they have got the belief that things will go back to early 2000's . Wenger managed to steady the ship after golden generation left , with fringe players . These are the true philosophers and great managers .

Pep is only a student of Bielsa school of philosophy . True Genius
 
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DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
People that want Bielsa have probably not followed his career and why he's in and out of jobs all the time + never managed a big club.

He got his nickname for a reason and it's meant to be taken literally.
 

RMU ReBorn

New member
Bielsa? As if people don't watch football.
Why bothering anyway ? Apart from Saint Pep everyone is a fraud as per majority of the forum members . So why not Bielsa who will give atleast the brand of football that majority are craving for . Or why not Arsene . It's Inevitable that everyone other than Pep will be called as average or frauds . You know what will happen if EV bench Suarez ? . These dudes , i mean senior members of the team will throw tantrum and will result in EV losing the dressing room and then it will be allover the media . It's not just case with Ev as well . Even Lucho had issues . Only certain Xavi convinced Messi to play in wings ,when Lucho had rift with Messi post Anoeta . When Pep came Messi was young , Xavi and Iniesta wasn't that big names as far as their influence in the club is concerned . They were part of Euro win but didn't had a big call in Club's decesions . And there was Laporta to back Pep and gave him the autonomy to do whatever he wants . It's not the case with Barto who is business minded and even restorted to money laundering in Paulinho transfer . Managers are helpless without the backing of board . Ev has to deal with huge ego's and those Senior members who are itching for better contracts .


Ev's Bilbao was one of the team that used to press like Crazy . Do you think that he lost that or he hasn't instructed our players to press like that ? . We pressed like crazy during initial phase of the last season . Later during the season our players stopped doing that and acted like nuts with their lazy movements . It's up to players to decide whether to oblige or to get destroyed
 
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vlad

New member
I would go for sampaoli if valverde doesnt make it here

I liked how sevilla looked under him, chile also

That short adventure with argentina doesnt make him bad coach suddendly


Edit: but whe shouldnt disscuss that now, valverde is in his 2nd season and he has my full support
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
I would go for sampaoli if valverde doesnt make it here

I liked how sevilla looked under him, chile also

That short adventure with argentina doesnt make him bad coach suddendly


Edit: but whe shouldnt disscuss that now, valverde is in his 2nd season and he has my full support

If we want a that type of manager Quique Setien is definitely a better choice. Sampaoli might not be a bad manager, but he proved himself to be utterly clueless and lacking guts with Argentina during the WC. Even his long-time assistant Sebastian Beccacece had a problem with him and left his team because he went completely retard in a high pressure environment where he was expected to deliver.
 

serghei

Senior Member
If we want a that type of manager Quique Setien is definitely a better choice. Sampaoli might not be a bad manager, but he proved himself to be utterly clueless and lacking guts with Argentina during the WC. Even his long-time assistant Sebastian Beccacece had a problem with him and left his team because he went completely retard in a high pressure environment where he was expected to deliver.

Yep, the tricky part is that you never know if a manager has what it takes to manage big egos and stars with a bold personality.
 

Joan

Well-known member
Why bothering anyway ? Apart from Saint Pep everyone is a fraud as per majority of the forum members . So why not Bielsa who will give atleast the brand of football that majority are craving for . Or why not Arsene . It's Inevitable that everyone other than Pep will be called as average or frauds . You know what will happen if EV bench Suarez ? . These dudes , i mean senior members of the team will throw tantrum and will result in EV losing the dressing room and then it will be allover the media . It's not just case with Ev as well . Even Lucho had issues . Only certain Xavi convinced Messi to play in wings ,when Lucho had rift with Messi post Anoeta . When Pep came Messi was young , Xavi and Iniesta wasn't that big names as far as their influence in the club is concerned . They were part of Euro win but didn't had a big call in Club's decesions . And there was Laporta to back Pep and gave him the autonomy to do whatever he wants . It's not the case with Barto who is business minded and even restorted to money laundering in Paulinho transfer . Managers are helpless without the backing of board . Ev has to deal with huge ego's and those Senior members who are itching for better contracts .


Ev's Bilbao was one of the team that used to press like Crazy . Do you think that he lost that or he hasn't instructed our players to press like that ? . We pressed like crazy during initial phase of the last season . Later during the season our players stopped doing that and acted like nuts with their lazy movements . It's up to players to decide whether to oblige or to get destroyed
You're making several points.
1) On Bielsa. Why not Bielsa? Because he asks for enormous autonomy. Big clubs can't do that. Furthermore, he wouldn't be able to deal with senior players and set his style. Sooner or later in the middle of the season, we'd be left without a coach. Respect Bielsa myself, revolutionary manager, but simply not a cut for a club like today's Barcelona.
2) Pep. Pep is clearly a superior manager and it's natural Barca fans will always be fond of him. But, as you say, some context should be considered. I agree that we need a manager with an ax able to get rid of players in serious decline but it's everything but easy. In the first place, you need capable youngsters to replace senior players. Like young Sergio Busquets. But also need to be able to handle ones who're staying. I imagine it must feel terrible to manage a dressing room led by Pique, Alba and Suarez. Most of them in serious decline but untouchable.
3) On Valverde. I believe he has solid ideas and knows his job, as shown several times, but in the end it's usually up to the players. It's hard to manage legends. He can fuck up just like he did vs. Roma, though. Would be ideal if he had huge authority which can be imposed but that's not the case. For most managers we can hire. For instance, hiring Setien, who I like, might not turn out as we expect. He could either motivate the team to follow his insturctions (not likely imo) or end up trying to get the best out of what he's got like Valverde.
 

George_Costanza

Active member
Edit: but whe shouldnt disscuss that now, valverde is in his 2nd season and he has my full support

I think one poster here said there is no alternative manager in case EV leaves at the end of the season (which IMO very likely).

While I like Bielsa and he was proven to handle a big team with WC players i.e Argentina 1998-2004, but his resume now doesn't show much stability for the past decade.

As of now, I hope EV changes his ways, play better-attacking football and have the balls to bench underperformers.

Yep, the tricky part is that you never know if a manager has what it takes to manage big egos and stars with a bold personality.

Many here predicted that Valverde was a yes man and his appointment has to do with him willing to bend over to the board. That type of personality will bend over to big egos and star players too.
 

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