Ernesto Valverde - V1

George_Costanza

Active member
Neymar was and is the second best player in the world. Our whole squad planning was depending and has been influenced by having him in the team. If we hadnt Neymar, we would have focused on a stronger midfield. Its all connected with Neymar.

This is would be true if we had a manager(s) who valued strong midfield. Under Lucho, the transition between the defense and the attack was faster. The midfield played a support role rather than a vital role as it used to be under previous managers. That's why Enrique bought Raki rather than Kroos. Raki had a support role or played second fiddle to Dani Alves then without Dani he was forced out wide in right midfield so Messi could drift into work with Suarez.
Besides, Barcelona could still manage to buy top talent with a decent price like Isco who was dreaming to join Barca, eventually moved to Real for 30m, and lost Thiago for peanuts the same year we have bought Neymar.

From a tactical point of view, i would even say he was just a big a loss as messi would have been. While Messi is the better player, Neymar doesnt depend on other players to compensate for lack of running with and without ball because of his age (edit: which is a big problem in an aging and old starting line up. I dont agree with Neymar choosing PSG, but it is true, that Messi in the end limitied his development. Anyway, you mentioned Dembele as a replacement, but his 150m doesnt make him a 150/220 = 0,7/1 or 110/220 = 1/2 (half) the player Neymar would have been that season. Because he maybe was 2/4 or even 3/4 the player in dortmund as neymar would have been, but he wouldnt be that in Barca. Dortmund plays completely different where his lack of deffensive awareness and skills didnt matter. And his running was way more vital than it would be in a possession-played tactic valverde/barca intended to play. To make full use of Dembele and get the most out of him we would need to play like Dortmund - but with an aging core, a a god damn slow midfield and even slower offence, that would never happen. So what we really got in Dembele was 1/5 of the player Neymar would have been. But it doesnt end there... Dembele got injuried (because he was immature, like our medics have told us afterwards) and was out for 4 months. So our attack was basically Messi, Suarez, Munir and Malcom. That is as bad as it gets, not because Messi and Suarez are anything less than amazing, but because a team depends on harmony. How stupid was Perez to sell makelele all though his replacement was the "better" player. Or Sergio was favored despite Toure being the all-around better player. So we were really fucked. You do get that right?
Lastly Valverde caculated with Neymar, his tactics depended on him, club ensured him, neymar would stay back then and Neymar was part of our pre-season.

Not sure why Neymar is brought up in this Valverde discussion. The whole heavy dependence on MSN should have come to end because it failed to produce results and only lasted between January 2015 until March 2016. So Even hypothetically speaking if we didn't buy Dembele and Neymar is still there, the issue would still be there with the midfield. That's why I don't understand you explaining the slow trust of Valverde in Dembele. Valverde is the new manager and for him Messi, Suarez (Neymar if he was still there), Dembele or Coutinho all new to him. It's not like he worked with Barcelona players before to treat new signings as an extra curriculum that needs time to adjust to his vision and tactics (if he has any), isn't it? All players are new to Valverde's system. Also, we all saw how Arthur got treated at the beginning and only got a chance when Rakitic got injured, the rest is history. He is young and played in a very inferior league. Dembele integration should have been even smoother if he was trusted more by Valverde. We probably lost the Roma game just for this fact alone!
So Valverde did something amazing and we plated 4-4-2, where Paulionho helped carry the ball to our slow forwards and our midfield was stacked so our slow midfield wouldnt be overrun. It was pure genius and brave decision, but also the only way around it. It made us leading la liga with a margin, and gave the our team some leeway. Barca management then decided to buy coutinho. Also Dembele more or less came back from injury. So two totally new players, our fans demanded to get a place in our starting line-up immidately. The amazing work in the first half gave us amazingly enough some leeway to integrate those two, but to switch a succesfull formation / set-up during the season, isnt really logical. But there is only so much you can do. People wanted Coutinho in midfield, and dembele in attack. But guess what¸ its not possible, because neither of them are good enough defensive enough especially with our aging core. People would say "but but we played with xavi-iniesta", yes thats true, but both of them were masters at keeping balll possession, coutinho and dembele play both with great risk in their game. Also we had wingers/attackers who could actual run and pressure.

So thats why only one of them could play in the team.
What you call pure genius (shocking really), I call it a tactical limitation. When you can't control the midfield like we used to, put in more muscle and defensive minded players on the expense of controlling the game. I don't think it's purely his fault, we don't control matches since 2016, our midfield is getting repeatedly overwhelmed because we didn't have the players to implement the 4-3-3 tactics. We didn't have a deep-lying playmaker with a wonderful range of passing, also we didn't have that technically perfect midfielder that could link the play between midfield and the strikers, the one who has good match vision. Is Valverde at fault here, partly because I think he has at his disposal the players that could make this happen (Arthur and Coutinho) but rather opted for slower midfield combo of Busquets (who is essential btw) and Rakitic. We play slow football because of our manager who like slower players and don't know how to integrate Coutinho into the 4-3-3 system. One has to question what goes in his training session and how he communicates his vision to the players.

Also, like another user says, the media was going crazy after neymar, our team was uneasy because they also depended on Neymars quality. Valverde got a lot of praise from players and the club how he handled the situation; and everyone did calm down (players).

Again, this is a bit exaggerated. Neymar was essential but wasn't a club legend. We lost much better players in the last few years before Neymar whos loss is still felt until today with the fans and the players. We lost a leader that we couldn't replace yet Puyol, we lost two club legends and arguably the best-midfield combo in the history of football Xavi and Iniesta. We lost the best Right Back in the world, close friend of Messi and dressing room popular Dani Alves. This is Barcelona, we move on! Valverde didn't even feel it because he never worked with Neymar as I explained before.
Im fine with your ideal-barca-way, and i do agree thats the way we should play, but player-mix (type, age etc) and cirumstances considered that was never an option, unless we would be fine being number 3 or 4 in la liga winning no titles what soever and winning no titles this season as well. Maybe a copa or something. EV has been nothing less than exceptional and for that i also want him to get the chance to develop a more beautiful concept, but he hasnt had the chance yet. Next season with our new signings, he will have a chance. And Im sure he will improve, but im also sure he still wont go all pep on us, and thats also a fine approach - because a generational change is a proces, and if you can keep winning while keep adding younger player and also keep playing more beautiful you have done a perfect job.

For me Valverde has had two 10/10 performances so far (both seaons).

You contradict yourself in the above paragraph, you admit his football is ugly but in the end, you gave him 10/10 which made come to a conclusion that you are a result oriented fan. Like my previous post, I explained what it meant to be a Barcelona manager and, valuation should be based on many different criteria not only one. Your valuation is expected in a team like Chelsea, PSG or ATM but not with a club with a deeply rooted tradition, its motto "Més que un club".
 

Alik

Moderator
This is quite funny and a little cringey at the same time. Valverde and the coaches were at the Ciutat Esportiva Joan Gamper for two days expecting some players to come in to train on their own and nobody showed up.

They were expecting the likes of Pique, Lenglet, Malcom and KPB who were not called up by the NTs.

https://as.com/futbol/2019/03/21/primera/1553182143_604836.html

Well, not exactly. Translation:

Ernesto Valverde just after finishing the match against Betis at Benito Villamarin last Sunday announced to his players that he was giving a week of holiday for those players who would not finally go to their national teams or were not even called directly. He also stated that he offered the possibility that both on Monday and Tuesday those who wanted to go to the Ciudad Deportiva to do a session of post recovery or simply bath and massage could do it perfectly because there was the possibility of doing a voluntary session.

Valverde summoned some members of his staff to come on Monday and Tuesday morning to the Ciudad Deportiva in case any player dropped by the facilities blaugrana. It is true that the list of footballers candidates to go through the club to carry out a voluntary training was practically reduced to the minimum expression, since of the 23 players in the squad - not counting the injured Rafinha, Dembele and Luis Suarez - only four players remained in Barcelona: Gerard Piqué, Prince Boateng, Clement Lenglet and Malcom.

Well, at the end, the staff members who attended the two days to the Ciudad Deportiva were staring at the shrews, as none of the four players went to the voluntary session on either day.

In the case of Pique and Lenglet there was some unanimity on the part of the technical body that they deserved to enjoy a whole week of rest to charge forces and "change chips", but in the case of Malcolm and Boateng there were already more disparate opinions on whether they had done well or not by skipping the two sessions of voluntary training.

Disappointed at Malcolm. Seems like he has given up.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Might have realized he has no chance here with Valverde staying :shrug:

Did well in the Clasico and scored only to see five minutes since.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
At least Malcom is not complaining publicly about his manager like Valverde did about Cruyff when he was at Barcelona.

[tw]1103751604661088264[/tw]
 

messi2140

6racies Xavi
At least Malcom is not complaining publicly about his manager like Valverde did about Cruyff when he was at Barcelona.

[tw]1103751604661088264[/tw]


giphy.gif
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
He was noone in that Cruyff's team and will be noone again once people that actually care about Barca take charge and get rid of his miserable football.
 

serghei

Senior Member
I think considering we are very close to a domestic double and a CL semifinal we should get behind the team and lay off Valverde for a while. We are certainly less easy on the eye than in the past, but outside City we are still the team to watch. We have a chance to make history here with this team, despite the faults. If we want perfection we might as well replay Barca - Madrid 5-0 from Pep's days over and over again and skip any future Barca games for like 50 years.

Team and fans need to get in a mental state where it is ok to suffer in football games. For me Valverde has improved in some areas. His style is the same but the players lend themselves to his tactics better. There seems to be an understanding between the players and the manager. This is the missing piece in CL. We can win it with our current style for sure, but we need will and tenacity from the players and smart decisions from the manager.
 
Last edited:

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
I think considering we are very close to a domestic double and a CL semifinal we should get behind the team and lay off Valverde for a while. We are certainly less easy on the eye than in the past, but outside City we are still the team to watch. We have a chance to make history here with this team, despite the faults. If we want perfection we might as well replay Barca - Madrid 5-0 from Pep's days over and over again and skip any future Barca games for like 50 years.

Team and fans need to get in a mental state where it is ok to suffer in football games. For me Valverde has improved in some areas. His style is the same but the players lend themselves to his tactics better. There seems to be an understanding between the players and the manager. This is the missing piece in CL. We can win it with our current style for sure, but we need will and tenacity from the players and smart decisions from the manager.

I like your attitude and it's good to be positive. Valverde has given us great results but I'm not enjoying watching this team as much as Luchos Barca for example. It sucks. The team is not as exciting as it used to be. We struggled then as well sometimes but we player amazing brand of football.
 

serghei

Senior Member
I like your attitude and it's good to be positive. Valverde has given us great results but I'm not enjoying watching this team as much as Luchos Barca for example. It sucks. The team is not as exciting as it used to be. We struggled then as well sometimes but we player amazing brand of football.

Honestly, the only difference with Lucho's Barcelona is that Lucho had several better players. Like Neymar, and Dani Alves, who had a monster 2014-15 since january or so. I'd say in broad lines, we're not playing much different than under Lucho, except our stars are older, and some of them aren't even here anymore.

The big difference in terms of entertainment is compared with Guardiola's Barcelona primarily. That team is still the standard everyone is comparing current versions with, and it's not really fair, because that team is probably the best football side of all time, with several all time great players in their positions peaking at the same time under a genius manager.

Current team needs to stop retreating vs weaker sides as soon as we get in front, rotate the players better and I'd say we're not that bad. Quite the contrary. We own both Madrid teams and this season we look like we can win the CL with some luck.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Anyway, conflicting opinions in regards to what Valverde does well or doesn't do well is fine and normal. Especially under a manager like Valverde, who's sort of a mixed bag, I think most would agree on that. Sometimes you like him, a few weeks later he pulls some shit and he falls out of grace right away.

All of that is fine. But considering that this is the final part of the season, and we're looking at a potential treble here if we dig deep, we need to toss that aside, and get behind the team. A treble this year would probably be more huge than it has ever been. We have leaders in the team saying they understand the tactics and they are ready to make it happen this season. Let's wait and see. Maybe we mean bussiness this season.

With Rijkaard in 2006 in CL, we kind of played like we do today with Valverde. I remember a tie with Milan in 2006 which was very much in the vein of what we're seeing here. Cagey games both home and away, in which we suffered and went through with some luck and off some moments of inspiration.
 
Last edited:

Home of Barca Fans

Top