Ernesto Valverde

[Richard.H]

The problem I have is not the fact we lost, but the WAY in which we lost. 3 years in a row we faced CL humiliation. You just don't go into a second leg in any tie and expect to get pummeled that badly. Roma is a massive fukup, a team that had probably 30 % of the talent of that 2018 Barca team just embarrassing us. Liverpool 2nd leg was pure embarrassment. Mentally weak team that gave up after the first half. Bayern was the cherry on top. Chaotic game and you could see Barca had no tactical structure. Everyone knew we were crap but 8-2 just caps it all off. A treble of embarrassments.

Now there could be a lot of debate on this forum of what if's, but I have no doubt that a world class coach like Allegri, Poch, heck even this current Koeman, would not tolerate such embarrassing losses. At that point it's not even a question of tactical ability, it's more of a question on whether the manager made any attempt to motivate the squad to play their hearts out. It's one thing to lose, but another to get embarrassed. This same forum would mock PSG year after year due to our own remontada. That really hurt their club's reputation and I doubt any PSG fan is backing Unai Emery.

 

[Katarina1]

It's no wonder our club is in shambles if our fans' standard of what constitutes a 'good coach' is someone who masterminded consecutive CL humiliations in which we had 3 goal leads. That level of incompetence would never be accepted at Real, which is why they will continue to win more trophies than us.

It was EV who encouraged ineptitude and Amigoism at the club. If he could fuck up like he did in the CL and still keep his top-paying job, what kind of lesson was that for the players? None other than abysmal failure is acceptable and fine. Which is exactly what they delivered three seasons in a row. That's the shitty mentality they brought to the 8-2.

From Lucho to EV we went from a club that had a fighting chance at the CL to a meme club the other top dogs in Europe want to draw so that they can stat pad against us.


@ Morten lol, if there was a Real coach who repeatedly fucked up and allowed Real to be humiliated, I'd be cheering them on, too. I can't take your EV defense seriously.

We did better in the CL under EV than in Lucho's last two seasons even with a worse squad

 

[BarcaOG]

Yes those defeats were in the squad before he got there... if your logic is blame the previous coaches and trying to make out arrived with EV.

You have it backwards if trying to make that claim based on what happened.

Easy.

Lol, okay. What a terrible argument. What's the point of hiring any coach then if a squad's potential to succeed is 'already in it' before any coach can influence it? Do you realize how stupid that logic is, and how easy it can be used to excuse ANY manager? Even Setien? If that is your line of reasoning then you shouldn't say a single world about Setien because the Bayern loss was 'there already'.

 

[BarcaOG]

We did better in the CL under EV than in Lucho's last two seasons even with a worse squad

If your standard of 'better' is back to back humiliations and losing 3 goal leads then please support Arsenal because that's a beta loser mentality. You're probably thrilled we're in third place in la Liga then.

 

[JamDav1982]

The problem I have is not the fact we lost, but the WAY in which we lost. 3 years in a row we faced CL humiliation. You just don't go into a second leg in any tie and expect to get pummeled that badly. Roma is a massive fukup, a team that had probably 30 % of the talent of that 2018 Barca team just embarrassing us. Liverpool 2nd leg was pure embarrassment. Mentally weak team that gave up after the first half. Bayern was the cherry on top. Chaotic game and you could see Barca had no tactical structure. Everyone knew we were crap but 8-2 just caps it all off. A treble of embarrassments.

Now there could be a lot of debate on this forum of what if's, but I have no doubt that a world class coach like Allegri, Poch, heck even this current Koeman, would not tolerate such embarrassing losses. At that point it's not even a question of tactical ability, it's more of a question on whether the manager made any attempt to motivate the squad to play their hearts out. It's one thing to lose, but another to get embarrassed. This same forum would mock PSG year after year due to our own remontada. That really hurt their club's reputation and I doubt any PSG fan is backing Unai Emery.

Roma was poor from EV much more so than Liverpool in my opinion.

The set up with Messi and Suarez more or less up in a two allowed Roma to pressure back line as not scared of going back other way. Still individual errors and poor performances contribute to that as well as coaches set up.

Liverpool were a better quality side than Barca overall and over two legs there was very little in the matches and came down to individual moments. EV gets a harder time on that one than deserves really for me.

Still would have changed him as club needed refreshed at that point.

 

[JamDav1982]

Lol, okay. What a terrible argument. What's the point of hiring any coach then if a squad's potential to succeed is 'already in it' before any coach can influence it? Do you realize how stupid that logic is, and how easy it can be used to excuse ANY manager? Even Setien? If that is your line of reasoning then you shouldn't say a single world about Setien because the Bayern loss was 'there already'.

You miss the point once again.

You are the one claiming Bayern result is down to EV and previous results and if claim that then you are ignoring the results in CL before EV got there.

The terrible logic you are pointing out is all your own... why blame EV for Bayern if Setien as coach cant impact team?

You are arguing with yourself and dont even see it.. what an 'intellectual'.

 

[BarcaOG]

Roma was poor from EV much more so than Liverpool in my opinion.

The set up with Messi and Suarez more or less up in a two allowed Roma to pressure back line as not scared of going back other way. Still individual errors and poor performances contribute to that as well as coaches set up.

Liverpool were a better quality side than Barca overall and over two legs there was very little in the matches and came down to individual moments. EV gets a harder time on that one than deserves really for me.

Still would have changed him as club needed refreshed at that point.

The Liverpool debacle is objectively worse. We had not surrendered an away goal going into that match. We had already been humiliated by surrendering a 3 goal lead the year prior--i.e. the squad and the manager should have taken some lessons from that debacle. You can fuck up once, it happens. If you fuck up twice in a row in the same way that's on you.

 

[JamDav1982]

The Liverpool debacle is objectively worse. We had not surrendered an away goal going into that match. We had already been humiliated by surrendering a 3 goal lead the year prior--i.e. the squad and the manager should have taken some lessons from that debacle. You can fuck up once, it happens. If you fuck up twice in a row in the same way that's on you.

Dont agree it is worse on the coach.

The approach across the two legs against a better side resulted in very even tie where individual moments decided it.

The approach v Roma was worse in the second leg and barely looked in it until they scored the third.

 

[BarcaOG]

You miss the point once again.

You are the one claiming Bayern result is down to EV and previous results and if claim that then you are ignoring the results in CL before EV got there.

The terrible logic you are pointing out is all your own... why blame EV for Bayern if Setien as coach cant impact team?

You are arguing with yourself and dont even see it.. what an 'intellectual'.

I've said numerous times that Setien was a poor coach for us. Sure, he is partly to blame for Bayern. The reason I claim EV influenced the Bayern loss more than Setien is because Setien had a truncated three months with a squad he inherited from EV; a squad he did not have any recruiting influence on. EV on the other hand had 2.5 years of influence on the team--surely that matters in terms of impact? The same squad that EV had taken to successive CL humiliations without penalty: i.e. the players could continue playing terrible football and all they received was higher salaries and longer contracts.

 

[JamDav1982]

I've said numerous times that Setien was a poor coach for us. Sure, he is partly to blame for Bayern. The reason I claim EV influenced the Bayern loss more than Setien is because Setien had a truncated three months with a squad he inherited from EV; a squad he did not have any recruiting influence on. EV on the other hand had 2.5 years of influence on the team--surely that matters in terms of impact? The same squad that EV had taken to successive CL humiliations without penalty: i.e. the players could continue playing terrible football and all they received was higher salaries and longer contracts.

You ignore the fact that EV was never going to be in a position to overhaul that already in 2017 ageing squad and was trying to get out from them what could.

 

[Katarina1]

If EV gets blamed for Bayern, Lucho should get blamed for Roma and Liverpool

 

[JamDav1982]

If EV gets blamed for Bayern, Lucho should get blamed for Roma and Liverpool

Exactly my point but not being picked up.

 

[Horatio]

Valverde is tactically superior to Luis Enrique. Luis Enrique has a stronger character though. Both solid coaches in their own way.

 

[BarcaOG]

You ignore the fact that EV was never going to be in a position to overhaul that already in 2017 ageing squad and was trying to get out from them what could.

Lol, okay, so EV is blameless, and as head coach had no influence whatever. Beta logic. I will facepalm hard if you give Koemann shit for failing to rebuild then, since according to your logic he has no power to do that.

 

[BarcaOG]

Exactly my point but not being picked up.

The key difference being that Lucho is actually a CL winning coach, whereas EV is a proven CL failure. The equivalence is pathetic. Strong logic. Its almost like comparing Solari to Zidane, lol.