Frenkie de Jong

[mc_lovin]

With Frenkie the best you get in regards to goalscoring are late runs into the box. Long shots are not one of his skills, has nothing to do with his 'DNA' either. I guess it's down to his body type. It just doesn't look right.

 

[vegitot]

Lets not forget that Rakitic took a lot of long shots too. I remember countless times those lowly driven back spin shots that smacked against adboards on the left side of the goal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rakitic play as a 10 mostly throughout his career? It's only natural that he scores more goals than someone like Frenkie.

Rakitic was a no 10 at Sevilla. Not at Barca. He was world class in two different roles which is the most impressive thing to me.

De Jong last season also scored quite well, for a Barca midfielder.

 

[mc_lovin]

Rakitic was a no 10 at Sevilla. Not at Barca. He was world class in two different roles which is the most impressive thing to me.

De Jong last season also scored quite well, for a Barca midfielder.

I don't think he was ever world class. He was decent, and a great role player, but not someone who carries the midfield or you build your team around. He gets bonus points for scoring some great goals against Real though (for Sevilla as well). I still think the biggest mistake recently has been signing Rakitic over Kroos. Such a dumb decision.

 

[vegitot]

I don't think he was ever world class. He was decent, and a great role player, but not someone who carries the midfield or you build your team around. He gets bonus points for scoring some great goals against Real though (for Sevilla as well). I still think the biggest mistake recently has been signing Rakitic over Kroos. Such a dumb decision.

Rather than spending over 300 millions on Dembele, Coutinho, Griezmann???

If you think prime Rakitic was not world class then there were very few world class midfielders at that time.

 

[mc_lovin]

Rather than spending over 300 millions on Dembele, Coutinho, Griezmann???

If you think prime Rakitic was not world class then there were very few world class midfielders at that time.

I mean those three were shocking signigns, but getting one of the very few world class midfielders? That would have been a game changer for us. And yeah, I think only a handful of midfielders are genuinely world class (per generation). Like 3-5 at best (recently just Modric and Kroos? DM's not included).

 

[te amo barca]

I mean those three were shocking signigns, but getting one of the very few world class midfielders? That would have been a game changer for us. And yeah, I think only a handful of midfielders are genuinely world class (per generation). Like 3-5 at best (recently just Modric and Kroos? DM's not included).

De Bruyne, Kimmich are as good as those two. Kante is a weird one, he is not a DM but is also a different CM to those creative ones. Think it's those 5, others are too young or a step below.

 

[vegitot]

I mean those three were shocking signigns, but getting one of the very few world class midfielders? That would have been a game changer for us. And yeah, I think only a handful of midfielders are genuinely world class (per generation). Like 3-5 at best (recently just Modric and Kroos? DM's not included).

Then your bar is too high, imo.

Rakitic is a great signing for club. Of course Kross is better than him but signed Rakitic is never a mistake. A guy who contributed a lot for club.

 

[mc_lovin]

Then your bar is too high, imo.

Rakitic is a great signing for club. Of course Kross is better than him but signed Rakitic is never a mistake. A guy who contributed a lot for club.

I am not doubting that, but there's the top tier and then there's the rest. Rakitic never belonged in the same conversation as the greats (aka world class midfielders). Still a mistake relative to what we could have signed.

De Bruyne, Kimmich are as good as those two. Kante is a weird one, he is not a DM but is also a different CM to those creative ones. Think it's those 5, others are too young or a step below.

Kimmich looks well on his way, but I can't help but feel de Bruyne is incredibly overrated.

 

[vegitot]

I am not doubting that, but there's the top tier and then there's the rest. Rakitic never belonged in the same conversation as the greats (aka world class midfielders).




Kimmich looks well on his way, but I can't help but feel de Bruyne is incredibly overrated.

I think you bar is too high. Just that.

Do you think De Jong is world class? Or his transfer price is too expensive??

 

[mc_lovin]

I think you bar is too high. Just that.

Do you think De Jong is world class? Or his transfer price is too expensive??

Potentially yes, but achievements go hand in hand with that. Technically he's up there. Price doesn't matter, not sure what that's about.

 

[Andresito]

Rakitic was a no 10 at Sevilla. Not at Barca. He was world class in two different roles which is the most impressive thing to me.

De Jong last season also scored quite well, for a Barca midfielder.

Was talking about him playing as 10 during his career in whole. From Croatia to Basel.

 

[BBZ8800]

YEs,
that's the reason, and all top coaches like Pep, Tuchel, Klopp, Nagelsman etc instruct their players not to take a shot from outside the box

It's an archaic concept that BBZ is fixated with.
There are very good reasons a player should avoid taking a shot outside the box at least 95% of the time
It rarely goes in

I know that about a low efficiency.
But Pep, why I dislike him, went into extremes.

One thing is to say to your team: take a longshot once in 10 actions because it rarely goes in.
But what Pep is doing is closer to: never take shots outside of a box.
Then you get this: you don't lose actions due to low-efficiency long shots, but you get sterile and predictable attack.
For example: someone like Iniesta/Pedri has the ball 20 meters from the goal.
And everyone knows that they won't shot, so they don't have to make a defensive move to block the shot.
All they have to do is wait for his sideway or forward pass.

The same is with Pep's corners.
For a long time, his teams didn't cross from corners but played those insanely retarded short corners which are basically again dwelling the ball around the box for 100 passes.
So: on one hand, Pep don't lose possession to low-efficiency corners, but on the other hand, everyone knows what they will do and after some time it is easy to neutralize and mark him.
To me, Pep's teams (City) are the most predictable teams in attack from top European teams.
It works in EPL against smaller teams because Pep has a formula for weak teams: he is just repeating the same fkng thing for 100 times and eventually 1 goal goes in this or that way.
But it doesn't work against big teams in a CL because he won't be able to repeat his shit 100 times but only 3-4 times (shots) per match.

So, I am not a longshots merchant, but I hate Pep's style because it is too logical and stats driven and he lost a huge part of magic/unpredictablity in his football.
On top of that, he dislikes individual players (bar Messi) who will ruin his team/flow, so he just fills the team with 6 random David Silvas in midfield/attack who will move the ball, pass and repeat the same shit for 100 times over 90 minutes.
No magic, no surprises, just 5 patterns repeated for 100 times over and over.

For example, check the Real's team who won 4 CLs in 5 years:
Kroos = shooting from long range like crazy
Modric = shooting often
Casemiro = shooting from time to time

Now, check our current midfielders:
Pedri = what does it mean to shoot from outside of a box?
Frenkie = what does it mean?
Busquets = lol

That's the burden of Pep's football/success.
It worked once with the golden generation 10 years ago and now we have 100s of his shit ideas that will be in our DNA for 50 years.

Don't shoot, rather pass.
Don't cross, rather pass.
Don't take corners, rather pass.

Look at some of shots/goals from RM's golden CL generation: Kroos and Modric:

Now look at this clown-show, video of Busquets' career goals for Barca, and dude scored one long range shot in his whole career, lol.
I am going to kill myself, lol.
A perfect example of La Masia, Barca DNA. Pep's heritage and why our team is shit in the last few years and why it will be shit until we move away from Pep.

Our midfielders can't shoot, can't score, can't defend and are meh at possession.
Our attackers aren't fast, aren't tall, can't dribble and struggle with scoring.
Our defenders aren't strong or fast. But they can play passes (Garcia, lol).
Our whole team is built around weak physique, IQ, smart actions, not risking, playing safe, possession.
No wonder that we are where we are.

RM in a CL.
When Kroos/Modric had the ball:
1. they could play possession
2. they could play forward passes for counters
3. they could cross/play long passes
4. they could shoot

Barca's midfield in the last few years:
1. we could play possession
That's more or less it, there are no other options, lol.
Then we meet anyone in a CL and look without ideas.
How come?
How come that it is possible that our one-dimensional football is easily neutralized by bigger teams?
I am shocked.

 

[KingLeo10]

I know that about a low efficiency.
But Pep, why I dislike him, went into extremes.

One thing is to say to your team: take a longshot once in 10 actions because it rarely goes in.
But what Pep is doing is closer to: never take shots outside of a box.
Then you get this: you don't lose actions due to low-efficiency long shots, but you get sterile and predictable attack.
For example: someone like Iniesta/Pedri has the ball 20 meters from the goal.
And everyone knows that they won't shot, so they don't have to make a defensive move to block the shot.
All they have to do is wait for his sideway or forward pass.

The same is with Pep's corners.
For a long time, his teams didn't cross from corners but played those insanely retarded short corners which are basically again dwelling the ball around the box for 100 passes.
So: on one hand, Pep don't lose possession to low-efficiency corners, but on the other hand, everyone knows what they will do and after some time it is easy to neutralize and mark him.
To me, Pep's teams (City) are the most predictable teams in attack from top European teams.
It works in EPL against smaller teams because Pep has a formula for weak teams: he is just repeating the same fkng thing for 100 times and eventually 1 goal goes in this or that way.
But it doesn't work against big teams in a CL because he won't be able to repeat his shit 100 times but only 3-4 times (shots) per match.

So, I am not a longshots merchant, but I hate Pep's style because it is too logical and stats driven and he lost a huge part of magic/unpredictablity in his football.
On top of that, he dislikes individual players (bar Messi) who will ruin his team/flow, so he just fills the team with 6 random David Silvas in midfield/attack who will move the ball, pass and repeat the same shit for 100 times over 90 minutes.
No magic, no surprises, just 5 patterns repeated for 100 times over and over.

For example, check the Real's team who won 4 CLs in 5 years:
Kroos = shooting from long range like crazy
Modric = shooting often
Casemiro = shooting from time to time

Now, check our current midfielders:
Pedri = what does it mean to shoot from outside of a box?
Frenkie = what does it mean?
Busquets = lol

That's the burden of Pep's football/success.
It worked once with the golden generation 10 years ago and now we have 100s of his shit ideas that will be in our DNA for 50 years.

Don't shoot, rather pass.
Don't cross, rather pass.
Don't take corners, rather pass.

Look at some of shots/goals from RM's golden CL generation: Kroos and Modric:

Now look at this clown-show, video of Busquet's career goals for Barca, and dude scored one long range shot in his whole career, lol.
I am going to kill myself, lol.
A perfect example of La Masia, Barca DNA. Pep's heritage and why our team is shit in the last few years and why it will be shit until we move away from Pep.

Our midfielders can't shoot, can't score, can't defend and are meh at possession.
Our attackers aren't fast, aren't tall, can't dribble and struggle with scoring.
Our defenders aren't strong or fast. But they can play passes (Garcia, lol).
Our whole team is built around weak physique, IQ, smart actions, not risking, playing safe, possession.
No wonder that we are where we are.

RM in a CL.
When Kroos/Modric had the ball:
1. they could play possession
2. they could play forward passes for counters
3. they could cross/play long passes
4. they could shoot

Barca's midfield in the last few years:
1. we could play possession
That's more or less it, there are no other options, lol.
Then we meet anyone in a CL and look without ideas.
How come?
How come that it is possible that our one-dimensional football is easily neutralized by bigger teams?
I am shocked.

Iniesta was pretty good with some long shots. He's easily a better embodiment of Pep's vision than Busquets.But that's why you deliberately chose Busquets in your "example".

 

[Kul_z]

I don't think he was ever world class. He was decent, and a great role player, but not someone who carries the midfield or you build your team around. He gets bonus points for scoring some great goals against Real though (for Sevilla as well). I still think the biggest mistake recently has been signing Rakitic over Kroos. Such a dumb decision.

Kroos is same bracket as rakitic, dont fool yourself.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I don't think he was ever world class. He was decent, and a great role player, but not someone who carries the midfield or you build your team around. He gets bonus points for scoring some great goals against Real though (for Sevilla as well). I still think the biggest mistake recently has been signing Rakitic over Kroos. Such a dumb decision.

I think we would have done way worse with Kroos over Rakitic. RM probably would have done worse too if it was the opposite