Hans-Dieter Flick

Hansi Flick - how do we rate him?


  • Total voters
    112

malvolio

Senior Member
It is hilarious to not rate La Liga at least as no2 league slightly behind EPL.

I believe this season Spanish teams will go far. And as much as we hate it, Madrid has been most successful team of the last 4 seasons in CL.

League been top 2 for decades. Be it Barca and Madrid dominating. Mid 00s to mid 10s Barca, mid 10s to mid 20s Madrid.
Was there any doubt that LL is not in top 2 anymore? Serie A's current top teams are comparable only to Atletico Madrid. They don't have something at Barca/Real level.

What they do have though, because the historical clubs went down 1-2 levels, is a more competitive race in the league.
 

iniestaGOAT

Senior Member
Flick's Barça is the first team to win at Signal Iduna Park in the Champions League since November 3, 2021. During that time, they played against Manchester City, Chelsea, Milan, Atletico Madrid, PSG, among others.

Yeah cause there was no pressure, we are top 8 either way
This was like a friendly

Just give me wins in la Liga
 

MontenegrinCuler

Well-known member
Yeah cause there was no pressure, we are top 8 either way
This was like a friendly

Just give me wins in la Liga
Nope. This game was important for the top 8. We haven't secured it even after this win let alone before it. We need one point in games against Benfica and Atalanta and it'll be enough.
 

Birdy

Senior Member
Was there any doubt that LL is not in top 2 anymore? Serie A's current top teams are comparable only to Atletico Madrid. They don't have something at Barca/Real level.

What they do have though, because the historical clubs went down 1-2 levels, is a more competitive race in the league.

Serie A had 5 teams in CL this season because of how well they did last season.
Atalanta won UEL, kicked out Liverpool in the process.
Juve just won against City yesterday
Inter played CL final the year before
This season all of Inter Juve Atalanta look ready to kick out big boys in the KOs, including Barca/Real
Delusional to not rate them

You are left 5-6 years behind until when the gap was indeed big between LL and Serie A
 
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Birdy

Senior Member
During the Messi/CR7 era, la liga clubs learned the hard way how to slow the game down, being defensively astute, using every trick in the book for that. La liga for years had the lowest actual minutes played in top 5 leagues.

Real actually learned that trick too when they played Barca, and it is one of the main reasons they do so well in Europe, they know every trick in the book and how to deal with them.

EPL, Bundesliga aren't like that tbh. There is a reason a coach like Pochettino didn't last long in Chelsea a club historically know for their defensive football.
EPL is all about money, and in entertainment industry money comes if you are entertained more. You can't have this many teams playing that slower pace games and killing plays with time wasting and stupid fouls. You need to keep fans engaged. The same is for Bundesliga although it feels more culture thing.
In CL we are playing against top clubs with pride, in Liga we are playing clubs who are masters of slowing things down, and that's antithesis of Flick's ball.

Ultimately, knockout games might become the same way as Liga games.

Depends on how you look at it, we either need to adjust to the league with our style, or make necessary adjustments in the team to make Flick's ball work.

All of that does not match with reality.

You describe the basics of parking the bus and resorting to antics/tricks to steal a result

That's an archetypical approach that was invented by Italians (if you want to pick one) and has been universalized all across the globe

It's been done by all teams from any country that simply wants to steal a result against a top team.
It is far from something Spanish teams do since CR7/Messi times

On the contrary, Spanish teams lost the edge they had during Cr7/Messi golden years.
Back then even the Sevillas, the Villareals, the Valencias, the Atleticos (even before Simeone) were instilling fear on similar tier opposition from other leagues because of the dominant football they could play
 

serghei

Senior Member
Serie A had 5 teams in CL this season because of how well they did last season.
Atalanta won UEL, kicked out Liverpool in the process.
Juve just won against City yesterday
Inter played CL final the year before
This season all of Inter Juve Atalanta look ready to kick out big boys in the KOs, including Barca/Real
Delusional to not rate them

You are left 5-6 years behind until when the gap was indeed big between LL and Serie A

Dude, Spanish teams have won 50% of the most important competitions in the last 4 years.

2 Europa League titles, and 2 Champions Leagues (Madrid, Villareal, Sevilla). England 2 (Chelsea, City), Germany 1 (Eintracht), Italy 1 (Atalanta).

What the hell are you talking about? La Liga teams won as much as all the other 3 leagues in the top 4 combined. This season I wouldn't be surprised to see Bilbao winning Europa League.

When you make an objective analysis you look at results. Results have La Liga on top of the other leagues in recent years.
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
You mean we have two more friendlies remaining then real UCL starts


There are many reports I've read that there is no more draws in CL. That it will be a path based on your league ranking. So if we finish 2nd, we won't have Liverpool in our path to the finals, and the 3rd seeding team will have a path to meet in Semi-final. In round of 16 we meet that team based on ranking, so winner of the 15th vs 18th team.

If this is the case, we have 2 important games ahead of us tnh. Not friendlies
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
All of that does not match with reality.

You describe the basics of parking the bus and resorting to antics/tricks to steal a result

That's an archetypical approach that was invented by Italians (if you want to pick one) and has been universalized all across the globe

It's been done by all teams from any country that simply wants to steal a result against a top team.
It is far from something Spanish teams do since CR7/Messi times

On the contrary, Spanish teams lost the edge they had during Cr7/Messi golden years.
Back then even the Sevillas, the Villareals, the Valencias, the Atleticos (even before Simeone) were instilling fear on similar tier opposition from other leagues because of the dominant football they could play

Who invented it is a mute point, who makes fear in Europe is also irrelevant.
And get out of the "bubble discussion" about better league, that isn't what I am discussing.
I wasn't describing parking the bus either, that is very simplistic way to understand my post.

Liga clubs, in Spain, has learned how to slow the game down shamelessly in every legal and illegal (time wasting and fouling) way. And it actually match the reality (as I mentioned, La Liga was always the slowest pace league, least amount of minutes actually played with around 5 less than EPL in some leagues in some seasons.


Here is some numbers about actual minutes played:

Issue number 242 of the CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post relies on InStat data to present the average effective time of games in 37 European competitions. The Swedish Allsvenskan is the league with the most fluid matches (60.4% of effective time), just ahead the UEFA Champions League (60.2%). The Portuguese Primeira Liga finds itself in the opposite position (50.9%).
The highest effective playing time among the five major European leagues was recorded for the German Bundesliga (58.5%), while the lowest was measured for the Spanish Liga (55.8%). As for the Champions League, Europa League games are more fluid than the average observed at the level of the 35 competitions surveyed: 57.1% of effective time compared to 55.3%.
The highest percentage of minutes in which the ball was in play for clubs in national competitions was recorded for matches of the Swedish side GIF Sundsvall (63.7%). This is 18% more than for games of the Portuguese team Feirense. Club Brugge tops the Champions League table (66.2%), while Borussia Mönchengladbach (62.5%), Liverpool (62.2%), Milan AC (61.2%), Barcelona (60.3%) and Paris St-Germain (60.1%) present the greatest figures for the big-5 leagues.
See also the exclusive CIES Football Observatory Performance Atlas

Another numbers is fouls:


Issue number 255 of the CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post ranks big-5 league teams according to the ratio between fouls suffered and committed during the current season using data from OptaPro. FC Barcelona players suffered the most fouls with respect to those committed (1.5 times). At the opposite end is Brighton & Hove with a ratio of 0.68.
The highest number of fouls committed per match was measured for Getafe (17.1). In the other leagues, the top values were recorded for Torino (16.8), Dijon (15.8), Augsburg (14.2) and Brighton & Hove (12.8). Conversely, Borussia Dortmund players have on average committed the least fouls per game (8.4). In the other championships of the big-5, the lowest figures were observed for Manchester City (8.5), Barcelona (10.5), Napoli (10.7) and Nice (11.2).
The average number of fouls per fixture varies between 20.9 in the Premier League and 27.0 in the Liga. This strong gap partially reflects the existence of different styles of refereeing. In the remaining leagues, these values are 24.0 in Bundesliga, 26.4 in Ligue 1 and 26.6 in Serie A. Among players fielded for at least 1,000 domestic league minutes, Moussa Doumbia (Reims), Amine Harit (Schalke 04) and Borja García (Girona) are those fouled most often.

Same for cards btw, 5.5 cards per game, Italy is 2nd among big leagues with 5 cards per game.

La liga again has more fouls, plays less minutes

Those are your favourite thing: Data.
It isn't only real, it is factual.

This is actually better than past few years, and Barcelona games is actually the one with the most minutes in Spain because we try the high pace, and it is still lower than any of the oher top 4 leagues. Only team worse than us? PSG with a former Barca coach and a league that is now designed to try defend one team dominance. And even them the difference with us is lower than the difference between any of the other top teams.


This is btw a slander to the league, not the opposite. It makes watching experience worse and the league being less entertainment.

Back to the actual topic, this makes Flick job in Liga the most challenging for him than in any other league, it is a fit thing. It is not better league or worse league, it isn't better tactically or worse tactically, because those are naive discussions anyway.

It is a question of fit and who is better for whom.
You think Flick actually is a better fit in Liga than in tournaments that allows more minutes played? less fouling and time wasting?
 

RedxMAK

Active member
Ain't even seen a man disrespect Barca the way that bum Xavi did as a coach



Yup, Barca fan
not Barca sheep like your lot
Nah, there have been worse. Valverde, Van Gaal 2nd and Setien. You cannot tell me Xavi was worse than those 3. Don’t try to call me a Xavi apologist, I admit I was wrong about him, but you can’t disrespect his achievements and I doubt any other manager would have done what he did in 2021-23. Just cause he did some mistakes in his 2nd season, does not allow you to disrespect him like that. He won us our first trophies in 2 years and helped us grow in Europe despite the players failing him many times. Competed in the UCL with a squad that had no changes and 2m euro spending summer. Please give him some respect and I doubt an amateur would win a league title when you have competitors like RM and AM. All the other 3 managers wouldn’t do what he did, because they couldn’t do better with a stronger squad. Also, Valverde did it because he had Messi in his side, without Messi’s brilliance Barcelona was really underwhelming. Anyways enough yapping about Xavi, let us enjoy Flick without you talking about how bad Xavi was….
 

RedxMAK

Active member
Ain't even seen a man disrespect Barca the way that bum Xavi did as a coach



Yup, Barca fan
not Barca sheep like your lot
Also, there have been many men who disrespected Barcelona as you think Xavi did. Bartomeu, Gaspart, Van Gaal 2nd, Rosell, Valverde and Setien. Just to name a few, these people all disrespected Barcelona by their sheer incompetence and stupidity.
 

iniestaGOAT

Senior Member
Also, there have been many men who disrespected Barcelona as you think Xavi did. Bartomeu, Gaspart, Van Gaal 2nd, Rosell, Valverde and Setien. Just to name a few, these people all disrespected Barcelona by their sheer incompetence and stupidity.

Nobody disrespected Barcelona in the history of the club more than that bum
Frenkie de jong
 

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