Hans-Dieter Flick

[jamrock]

We've probably conceded the most too.

As they say in America, defense wins championships, offense wins games/fans.

 

[Horatio]

We've probably conceded the most too.

As they say in America, defense wins championships, offense wins games/fans.

Number of goals conceded could be better but ain’t that bad. 26 across whole season so far. Still impressive considering circumstances and average age of team.


Damn…Liverpool only conceded 1 goal so far in CL. Van Dijk cooking.

 

[jamrock]

Number of goals conceded could be better but ain’t that bad. 26 across whole season so far. Still impressive considering circumstances and average age of team.


Damn…Liverpool only conceded 1 goal so far in CL. Van Dijk cooking.

Yea Cubarsi lit a fire under VVD ass, great players push each other, I like it....

 

[MontenegrinCuler]

We've probably conceded the most too.

As they say in America, defense wins championships, offense wins games/fans.

There's a reason they say that in US out of all countries

What eventually matters is just the goal difference. Who cares if you concede goals when you outscore your opponent by a wide margin at the end

Bayern won the sextuple with this game system, so saying it can't win you trophies is a little paradoxical. Surely different circumstances with all the covid shit, but you can't claim it wasn't about how Bayern played football at all. They were insane.

 

[jamrock]

There's a reason they say that in US out of all countries

What eventually matters is just the goal difference. Who cares if you concede goals when you outscore your opponent by a wide margin at the end

Bayern won the sextuple with this game system, so saying it can't win you trophies is a little paradoxical. Surely different circumstances with all the covid shit, but you can't claim it wasn't about how Bayern played football at all. They were insane.

Bayern sextuple has a massive * beside it.

The WC showed his system isn't as great as some thought.

Like I posted a few pages back only 1 teams has won la Liga in the past 10 years while conceding 40 goals, which looks like the amount we are about to concede in the league, and they won it by just 3 points.

Nothing to do with US, defense wins championships period.

Not defensive football, but Defense, he gotta tighten that shit up, period.

 

[MontenegrinCuler]

Bayern sextuple has a massive * beside it.

The WC showed his system isn't as great as some thought.

Like I posted a few pages back only 1 teams has won la Liga in the past 10 years while conceding 40 goals, which looks like the amount we are about to concede in the league, and they won it by just 3 points.

Nothing to do with US, defense wins championships period.

Not defensive football, but Defense, he gotta tighten that shit up, period.

Surely he should fix it but there's a question mark of how possible it is without reducing the offensive output, which is the literal engine of his system.

If you concede 40 goals and score well above a hundred which is also what we're projected to score that pretty much offsets. Concede more and score more is same shit like concede less and score less.

 

[serghei]

Surely he should fix it but there's a question mark of how possible it is without reducing the offensive output, which is the literal engine of his system.

If you concede 40 goals and score well above a hundred which is also what we're projected to score that pretty much offsets. Concede more and score more is same shit like concede less and score less.

In the matches we lost valuable points in, we obviously didn't manage to score enough to win the games. It matters a lot how the scored goals and conceded goals are distributed.

 

[soul24rage]

 

[MontenegrinCuler]

In the matches we lost valuable points in, we obviously didn't manage to score enough to win the games.

Yea. So attack was the problem. Against Sociedad for example we didn't have a single shot on goal, iirc (or maybe just 1). Robbed of one goal though, but still. As long as the attack is going strong defence should not be much of a problem. In those matches without Lamine; lack of creativity, heavy touches and poor ball control. Only Raphinha was decent in our front 4. Against Betis too, if we could do better to finish some of the chances in first half it would be a one-way street in the second.

 

[jairzinho]

Would like to see more vertical play. We started off the season playing long, direct and quick passes into space in behind. Lately its been more sideways and pedestrian.

Against Dortmund Raphinha kept making runs in behind but no one would pick him out.

 

[Birdy]

Who invented it is a mute point, who makes fear in Europe is also irrelevant.
And get out of the "bubble discussion" about better league, that isn't what I am discussing.
I wasn't describing parking the bus either, that is very simplistic way to understand my post.

Liga clubs, in Spain, has learned how to slow the game down shamelessly in every legal and illegal (time wasting and fouling) way. And it actually match the reality (as I mentioned, La Liga was always the slowest pace league, least amount of minutes actually played with around 5 less than EPL in some leagues in some seasons.


Here is some numbers about actual minutes played:



Another numbers is fouls:




Same for cards btw, 5.5 cards per game, Italy is 2nd among big leagues with 5 cards per game.

La liga again has more fouls, plays less minutes

Those are your favourite thing: Data.
It isn't only real, it is factual.

This is actually better than past few years, and Barcelona games is actually the one with the most minutes in Spain because we try the high pace, and it is still lower than any of the oher top 4 leagues. Only team worse than us? PSG with a former Barca coach and a league that is now designed to try defend one team dominance. And even them the difference with us is lower than the difference between any of the other top teams.


This is btw a slander to the league, not the opposite. It makes watching experience worse and the league being less entertainment.

Back to the actual topic, this makes Flick job in Liga the most challenging for him than in any other league, it is a fit thing. It is not better league or worse league, it isn't better tactically or worse tactically, because those are naive discussions anyway.

It is a question of fit and who is better for whom.
You think Flick actually is a better fit in Liga than in tournaments that allows more minutes played? less fouling and time wasting?

1)What you say about slowing tempo, fouling, and time-wasting is very much in line with parking the bus
Have you seen a team that tries to do all that by playing open and attacking football, or pressing high?
Evidently NOT
Nor they will play with the last line high if their purpose is to disrupt play

2) Who invented it is important, as it is their go-to strategy in big games with very few exceptions.
But let's say for the sake of the discussion, these stats prove that Spanish teams have even surpassed Italians in that.

3) Back to the actual point you made:
it doesn't prove that Flick has any harder job that any coach who tries to attack with any attacking style of playing whatosever, and finds opposition that is determined to disrupt play by any means possible

It happens in all leagues in the world, where the small teams play against the big boys.
With few exceptions (like Bundesliga), but it's the rule.

City, Arsenal have to do it against second half of EPL table sides
Inter, Napoli have to do it in Serie A against almost everyone below 7th
etc.

Bottom-line, it has nothing to do with Flick's style, which was the original point

 

[Birdy]

Nah, there have been worse. Valverde, Van Gaal 2nd and Setien. You cannot tell me Xavi was worse than those 3. Don’t try to call me a Xavi apologist, I admit I was wrong about him, but you can’t disrespect his achievements and I doubt any other manager would have done what he did in 2021-23. Just cause he did some mistakes in his 2nd season, does not allow you to disrespect him like that. He won us our first trophies in 2 years and helped us grow in Europe despite the players failing him many times. Competed in the UCL with a squad that had no changes and 2m euro spending summer. Please give him some respect and I doubt an amateur would win a league title when you have competitors like RM and AM. All the other 3 managers wouldn’t do what he did, because they couldn’t do better with a stronger squad. Also, Valverde did it because he had Messi in his side, without Messi’s brilliance Barcelona was really underwhelming. Anyways enough yapping about Xavi, let us enjoy Flick without you talking about how bad Xavi was….

I was referring to his attitude.
But if you wanna talk coaching abilities and merit, sure he is below all of them.
Had Setien, EV, and Koeman enjoyed levers as Xavi and 200m in singings of their liking they would have won the league as well

(EV's football was terrible, like Xavi's, but far more effective: we were not winning without deserving)

 

[Birdy]

Top analyst!

Everyone should watch it to appreciate Flick's genius

 

[RedxMAK]

I was referring to his attitude.
But if you wanna talk coaching abilities and merit, sure he is below all of them.
Had Setien, EV, and Koeman enjoyed levers as Xavi and 200m in singings of their liking they would have won the league as well

(EV's football was terrible, like Xavi's, but far more effective: we were not winning without deserving)

Nah, Setien, EV and Koeman had one major asset above Xavi, which is the greatest athlete ever witnessed. That asset is what has been carrying Barcelona for the last decade and unfortunately left in 2021. You can’t tell me Xavi wouldn’t have done better if he had Messi with him. Also EV had way better finances and still eventually screwed it up.

 

[serghei]

Lol, comparing EV who managed Barca when it was one of the biggest spenders in Europe to managers that followed in the post Bartomeu mess.