Ivan Rakitić

[Vilarrubi]

What we could clearly see on Rakitic today that he was in an unsettled mind state on the field...
Yes he was an unquestionable starter for two years, but now the coach wanted competition for his post. First they bought Arda, and later during the half year he had to wait, both the press and the management suggested and hoped the Turk will be new star there. It didn't happen and Turan had very mediocre performances in that midfield post, so later (mostly playing training matches or the easiest games) he became an attacker. All right.
But when Arda fell out from the midfield hat, both Gomes and Denis, another two expectant players came to compete for the same position.

So I'm just asking: is it possible to play well when actually three other, and relatively acceptable players fight for your post?
Psychologically speaking it is impossible, or to be precise it's impossible to do that for the attacking role, which requires ease and creativity. Because in a situation like this ALL good players become stiff, and although their willpower and fighting instinct help in defense, but only defense, but never while trying to attack.

So, to cut it short, this mindless management actually stole all possible and available confidence away from Rakitic by this rotation mania, and frankly if I were in his place, I'd definitely leave, because under this kind of artificial pressure it is just impossible to play creatively and confidently...

You always have the best posts... you put into words what I am thinking lol

This is the point, Lucho has created this and now we have a dysfunctional midfield with whoever we play there.

Which midfielder would have buy to play along side Busi and Iniesta?

 

[Potroh]

When you put it that way....

Yes, I put it that way because many of the "result oriented" folks here, who tend to see players as mere gladiators, very often mention that Rakitic is out of form, which is definitely not the case.
The problem is with the management, as they have been systematically trying to fleece off the remaining confidence from this player, who is actually more talented than any of his artificially collected competitors, having brought in for a huge overall amount...

 

[Messi983]

You are looking at things from psychological perspective which is ok. But we should also look from a physical standpoint. One of the main reasons for our downfall in April last season was because MSN and starting midfielders were just too tired after playing in almost every game.

I don't have any problem bringing in competition for Rakitić or Iniesta (although that's much harder). Yes, Lucho should handle Rakitić's (and I will also say Vidal's) case better than just leaving him out of match squad for consecutive games and he has over rotated in many games which lead us to drop some points but I prefer it this way if it means our midfielders and squad in general will be more fresh when we'll play most important games. We are not at our best right now (but I think we are improving) but at the same time last season we were in the middle of 39-games unbeaten run and we later struggle to even win La Liga which most of us take for granted in February or March. So while I don't agree with most Lucho's decisions I'll give him and whole team benefit of the doubt until I see how they'll do in most important part of the season. Our situation is not ideal but we are still in a position to win everything. And that's all I want in mid-January.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Yes he was an unquestionable starter for two years, but now the coach wanted competition for his post. First they bought Arda, and later during the half year he had to wait, both the press and the management suggested and hoped the Turk will be new star there. It didn't happen and Turan had very mediocre performances in that midfield post, so later (mostly playing training matches or the easiest games) he became an attacker. All right.

Rakitic didn't sign as a unquestionable starter,he knew he had to compete with one of the clubs symbol and legends in Xavi albeit being 34,he even lost his place for Xavi many times in his 1st half season and 6 months later Arda was signed as both Xavi & Pedro versatile replacement.

Rakitic knew exactly knew what he is signing for,he signed for a big club that he will have to earn his minutes in every game of it and he worked hard for that and while being most substituted player he was one of the top players in terms of both minutes and number of games played.

Gomes was brought to compete him which is true but Denis is different player,but again I don't see the problem of it. If he has a problem of competition then he is mentally weak for a team like us,and I don't think this is the case by any mean.

We don't know what is happening behind the scenes,may be Rakitic had a problem with Lucho or something and was handled (by either of them) wrongly but I don't see the whole competition thing as a factor at all. And I really hope it isn't because this speaks more of him rather than the club

 

[Potroh]

Rakitic didn't sign as a unquestionable starter

I said he WAS an unquestionable starter for almost two years...

Gomes was brought to compete him which is true but Denis is different player, but again I don't see the problem of it. If he has a problem of competition then he is mentally weak for a team like us,and I don't think this is the case by any mean.

If you don't see the problem of the mental part, you will never see it, because you think these players are robots without emotions... Do you seriously think that it is the "normal" state for a player to fight (day by day and game by game) for his position? If he is influenced by this then it means he was weak??? Come on man...
If Pique, Messi, Neymar or Suarez had to compete all the time for their positions, do you really think they wouldn't be influenced? They could play even more creatively (when in form) if they felt they were subjected to continuous competition and ill fated experiments? They would wait for 3 months and then leave immediately!

Do you really and seriously think that the "Vidal competes with Roberto", "Mascherano with Umtiti", "Alba with Digne", Rakitic with 3 others, "Neymar with Arda", "Suarez with Alcacer" type of competitions will bring any good for a team like this one?
And what happens when it turns out that Suarez has lost to Alcacer? Yes, for you Alcacer will be the winner. But in 3 days you will bring another one to compete with the winner, because this is the natural state for you?

This is giving birth to Chaos my friend, taking away confidence, assertiveness and nerve-strength from these players! That's why they simply cannot play like they did for years, because the psychological factor is often more important than other crucial variables.

Your sentence "If he has a problem of competition then he is mentally weak for a team like us" reminds me to many of the historic battles, where this mentality brought bloody losses for generals, starting from Djingis Khan to Napoleon, way up to the Falklands...

 

[khaled_a_d]

I said he WAS an unquestionable starter for almost two years...

And he wasn't,he wasn't unquestionable for his 1st half of year. He didn't know if he will be after signing of Arda as you yourself suggest.

If you don't see the problem of the mental part, you will never see it, because you think these players are robots without emotions... Do you seriously think that it is the "normal" state for a player to fight (day by day and game by game) for his position? If he is influenced by this then it means he was weak??? Come on man...
If Pique, Messi, Neymar or Suarez had to compete all the time for their positions, do you really think they wouldn't be influenced? They could play even more creatively (when in form) if they felt they were subjected to continuous competition and ill fated experiments? They would wait for 3 months and then leave immediately!

Do you really and seriously think that the "Vidal competes with Roberto", "Mascherano with Umtiti", "Alba with Digne", Rakitic with 3 others, "Neymar with Arda", "Suarez with Alcacer" type of competitions will bring any good for a team like this one?
And what happens when it turns out that Suarez has lost to Alcacer? Yes, for you Alcacer will be the winner. But in 3 days you will bring another one to compete with the winner, because this is the natural state for you?

This is giving birth to Chaos my friend, taking away confidence, assertiveness and nerve-strength from these players! That's why they simply cannot play like they did for years, because the psychological factor is often more important than other crucial variables.

I see plenty of problems in mental parts,I just think that one you are presenting is a fictional one

All players has to compete for spots,Cesc was brought to compete with Xavi and Iniesta it didn't affecr either. Sanchez was brought to compete with MVP and non of them was hurt by it. Mascherano came here as Busquets sub and he turned into back up CB for Puyol and Pique (despite playing a lot,those two was always top choice when healthy) for couple of seasons
When you look even b4,we brought MVB and Deco to compete with Xavi and he still developed nicely even with emerging Iniesta who was younger than him.
We brought Henry to compete with REM and non of them had a problem because of it. all played their parts. Even Pedro didn't have problem being relegated to the bench and still played his part and kept himself in form.
The players who were affected by it was the one with weaker mentality like Cesc & Sanchez. Rakitic isn't that by any mean,never was and never well and it is sad to think of him that way.
He is still starter in this team,he is still the midfielder with 2nd most minutes after Busquets. if he sees competition with younger player disturbing then yeah it is his problem.

Your sentence "If he has a problem of competition then he is mentally weak for a team like us" reminds me to many of the historic battles, where this mentality brought bloody losses for generals, starting from Djingis Khan to Napoleon, way up to the Falklands...

wtf?

 

[MIXA]

If I was given the opportunity to fix the current problems, I would buy Koke to play along side Busi and Iniesta. I would also promote Palencia to the RB spot. So my team would be:

Mats
Palencia-Masch-PK-Alba
Busi
Koke-Iniesta
M-S-N

 

[Messi983]

Buying new players and expecting them to have immediate positive effect (which most fans here expect) might work in FM or FIFA but not in real world. Yes, Koke could adapt quicker because he's used to play with Busi and Iniesta from Spain NT but he could just as well struggle playing in a different system. Most Atletico players were disappointing when they signed for other teams. Not just Arda in Barça but also let's say Diego Costa and Filipe Luis in Chelsea. I like Koke and wouldn't mind us signing him (but I'd even rather have Saul) but we should be aware that he might just not be a guaranteed success here. The same for Verratti who most people would pay crazy money to get him. Good to great and even WC players have more or less failed here for different reasons before even if they had successful career before and after playing for Barça. Let's just say Ibra and Cesc, even Alexis in some extent didn't really make people happy with his performances all the time.


And about Palencia. While I like him and think Lucho should at least give him a chance to prove himself in first team trainings and maybe in some games against easier opponents there is no way we should just penciled him as our starting RB without knowing how he would do regularly against much tougher opponents he's used to face playing for Barça B. Yes, he might be the next coming of Alves (although probably nobody really expects that from him) or he could play well in first few games so peoples expectations will raise and then after 5 or 6 months same people will start to call for his head like they do now with Roberto. Or he might just fail to establish himself even as a backup let alone as a starter even if given a fair chance to prove himself. I know people have their favourites among our youngsters (I do too) but sometimes they just don't meet our (most of the times too high) expectations.

 

[Potroh]

I see plenty of problems in mental parts,I just think that one you are presenting is a fictional one

Sure... All players are happy to feel the competition's cool gasp or breath all the time under their shirts, they particularly like those being brought in instead of having them regularly, they love to remain on the bench, they enthusiastically love to be the last 14 minutes substitutions in hard or lost games... So yes, you are right and this is just a fictional boolshift that came to my mind during my early lunch...

Hurrah the competition , where the slowly degrading team finally finds itself being competing more internally than externally. Wise...

wtf?

No wonder you didn't understand my historical example with the generals, as you seem yield the ancient "NOBODY is IRREPLACEABLE" slogan.
This is how dictators work while trying to adaw their soldiers, but wise coaches know that all primness built rotations and replacements usually bring nothing but dubiety and hesitancy...

 

[mark1nhu]

Hey [MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION], I understand what you're saying but...

As far as narrative goes, Mats and Bravo played high level goalkeeping football due to the competition between them and they simply dropped the level when getting guaranteed spot in their teams.

Also, when we talk about Neymar, most folks here (including me) agree he should have someone putting some fire under his ass, so he can be a little less reckless and a lot more focused.

So, we treat competition as a good thing for most players but then it is a bad thing for Raki (???). Is he Prince Harry and no one told me?

If anything your theory (if true) makes me angry with him because this is Barcelona and no player (bar Messi and Iniesta, arguable) should be spoiled to the point of not expecting competition.

Honestly, I like Rakitic and I would rather believe he is physically out of form than mentally affected by this. The latter would really disappoint me, instead of give me empathy for him.

I know players are not robots, but I couldn't care less about it. They are very well paid to be physically and mentally prepared to wear such an important shirt like ours, if he cannot handle a simple situation like that then he doesn't have what is required to be a Barça player (as much I like him and want to see him succeed).

I can accept a lot of justifications: out of form, marriage problems, lack of sleep due to newborns (hi Busi), death of beloved ones, etc.

But "mentally affected by competition"? Sorry, but not acceptable (although might be true). Just get out of Barça in this case (or Neymar's case, or Luisito's case, or Alba's case, etc)...

 

[snowy]

Hey [MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION]

But "mentally affected by competition"? Sorry, but not acceptable (although might be true). Just get out of Barça in this case (or Neymar's case, or Luisito's case, or Alba's case, etc)...

actually, in ney's case, this would make him more competitive. Dude would hate sitting on the bench and seeing another player get a hug from Leo after an assist

 

[mark1nhu]

actually, in ney's case, this would make him more competitive. Dude would hate sitting on the bench and seeing another player get a hug from Leo after an assist

I would worry about that other player safety.

LOL.

 

[Altomonte]

I just watched a replay of the Real Sociedad match and paid special attention to Rakitic. I think he is the strongest of the four (Gomes, Denis, Rafinha) defensively. Without him we may not have won. He strengthened the right side and stabilized Sergio Roberto's actions. We should renew his contract.

 

[MIXA]

Buying new players and expecting them to have immediate positive effect (which most fans here expect) might work in FM or FIFA but not in real world.

There are so many players who have transferred to new teams and had an immediate positive effect. Here are some real world examples, not FM fantasy stuff:
1. When David Silva transferred from Valencia to Man City, he had an immediate positive impact. In fact he became their most important midfielder from the very first day.
2. When Ronaldo transferred from UTD to Madrid, he had an immediate positive impact
3. When Pique came from UTD, he too had an immediate positive impact
4. When Torres transferred to Liverpool he had an immediate positive impact
5. Kante from Leicester to Chelsea is an immediate success
6. Kroos to Madrid was an immediate success
7. Sampoali as a coach is also proving to be an immediate success

There is no reason to think why Koke cannot be like one of the players mentioned above.




And about Palencia. While I like him and think Lucho should at least give him a chance to prove himself in first team trainings and maybe in some games against easier opponents there is no way we should just penciled him as our starting RB without knowing how he would do regularly against much tougher opponents he's used to face playing for Barça B.

Pique and Busquets become our starting CB and DM respectively without proving anything. They were basically thrown into the deep end and they proved that if you show faith in youth, you can be rewarded. Even Guardiola become successful here without first proving anything. Palencia can also be like Pique and Busquets if given the chance.

 

[Potroh]

Hey [MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION]I know players are not robots, but I couldn't care less about it. They are very well paid to be physically and mentally prepared to wear such an important shirt like ours, if he cannot handle a simple situation like that then he doesn't have what is required to be a Barça player

Oh boy, if it was as simple as you try to put it...
This game is a creative sport, played by more brain than feet actually, so what happens when you pay them to be also prepared mentally? Nothing...
They will run, they will train, they will risk their bodily health but you can't force them to be happy, satisfied, jealous, etc. just as nobody on Earth is able to change his or her OWN emotions willingly!

A very basic psychological rule helps to understand this: Your emotions cannot be influenced by yourself or forcefully imbibed, you can only notice or observe your own emotions but never change them. You cannot hate somebody because you want to, cannot love something or someone because you want to. To simply put: Emotions are NOT under vegetative, wilful or voluntary control. Neither for the extremely well payed sportsman nor for you...

Being said that: a good coach is the one who is capable and able to externally influence his players emotionally, and the bad one does just what you said you would expect: he doesn't care about it and thinks it was a training task for the player, being mentally prepared, without his interference...