John Stones

[DonAK]

The first part isnt correct they were fantastic defenders, the 2nd part is. I'm sure that you also notice the resemblance in the names. Italian defenders that played for a Sacchi influenced Milan in a country that stood as a literal fortress for defensive tactics for decades. Would Nesta, Maldini etc have had a similar success, had they played elsewhere? Take both of them, take a defensive line of Maldini, Nesta and even add 2 legendary fullbacks of your favourite choice to that and put this defensive line into Pellegrini's City. Would City have an unbeatable defence now, because they have the most illustrious backline in the history of mankind?
Maybe, or maybe not. Because even though Maldini used to be an exceptional tackler who would probably come out with a victory in 2 of 3 direct 1on1s with a striker, he would still eventually loose the 3rd. And then so-called pundits and fairweather fans will give their superficial views on the situation and blame him for the lsot tackle. And when he gets blamed to often for loosing out tackles, then people would question his ability and talk about replacements instead of figuring "Why the fuck is Maldini facing so many 1on1s in the first place?" The reason is because not only defenders are supposed to "defend", but everyone is, defending is a collective effort. Defensive problems do already start with strikers or midfielders and most importantly the tactics that the coach applied to the team, and those faults of others will eventually lead to defenders finding themselves in unpleasant situations and getting scapegoated.

Of course defenders have their individual differences, but there is a limit to how much this should cost and there is a cost-benefit factor.
If you're some fucking sheikh in Abu Dhabi, you own multiple football clubs, planes and spend your day throwing sales representatives into a pool of imported alligators by pushing some botton that is attached to the ancient saracen-throne you are sitting on, then you can of course go all out and spend 100m on John fucking Stones and pair him up with Godin and Boateng, because you dont give a fuck about costs or benefits, but the impact might still not be the one you expected. Surely Boateng and Godin would probably do slightly better in a chaos-defence than a pairing of Demichelis and Djourou would do, but I wouldnt go up and pay 130m for those minor differences. I'd rather question the coach or the midfielders and even those who score or assist a lot of goals.

If the defence-mechanics of your team look right, then you could even win a CL or a domestic title with 2 Umititi's or some other 20m defender.
Then most probably someone will want to buy your Umtiti for 80m next season, thinking he's the new god of defending.

And which team have won with two Umtiti's or other 20m defenders in this market?

The point about defensive organization and having a solid system is obviously valid, but for Barca, a defender still need to have specific skills, a skillset required for our style of play because no matter how solid the system is, our defenders don't have the protection other teams with deep defensive lines have.

And when it comes to not paying a lot for defenders and simply paying peanuts for one because that's what's required then what do you think we've been doing since we signed Mascherano? Yet we've not found one quality CB alongside the Masche-Pique duo who could challenge that.

Why?

Because we've been following that line of thought. Why spend a little more on quality when you can budget save with some 10-25m CBs that aren't good enough for a place in the Starting XI or good enough long-term.

Stones is so far removed from a legends like Maldini its not even funny. Of course Umtiti is a better alternative than him for Barca at that price. He's the best CB in France together with Thiago Silva and is like a carbon copy of Abidal at that age. He's not some nobody, just because he doesnt play in England. Have you never seen him play or what? Watch his game against PSG or Valencia and see for yourself then. His style fits Barca very well. Very few players people watch in the EPL fit the style Barca play, but they are willing to pay almost anything for them. I miss the times when we used to buy players like Abidal. My first option would be Musacchio but Umtiti would be a close second. People love to pay crazy money for players, so people love the idea of 100m Stones or 70m Laporte, but we have to realize we're Barca, and we have to replace lots of superstars in the coming years which will cost alot of money (probably 600m for Messi and Suarez replacements).

Buying into the Stones hype and getting him for 100m could bankrupt us down the road. We need to be savvy in the market once again. People became obsessed about Benatia and wanted to pay 70m for him a couple of years ago to solve all our CB problems. People had complete tunnel vision with this "we want Benatia at all costs" mentality. It's this type of madness we need to guard against.

Didn't compare Stones with Maldini, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Just pointed out that some defenders are valued more because they're a lot better than others, just like in other positions. Not sure if that's true with Stones though.

Not saying we should sign Stones, or heck even Laporte or Marquinhos if there's a better option available for less, but I definitely think we should sign a younger player with the required skillset and not a player pushing 30 or 30+ again.

The problem with names like Umtiti, Johannes Geis, Lucas Lima guy and all the other random players you suggest is that while they do well for mid-table clubs and have some good performances here and there, can you really ensure they're good enough for Barca?

You're not any less than any of us and other posters here when you hype up players so I'll wait to hear from someone who knows their shit before supporting a signing of someone like Umtiti.

BTW: Mussaccio's buyout is also 50m.

 

[Jenks]

Major fuck up against Swansea which lead to a penalty and the 0-1.

I think the reaction has been harsh. If Howard knew what was around him he deals with that no problem. He just strolls towards it while Ayew is bearing down on him.

 

[AnfieldEd]

He's good but he's overrated.

The first job of a defender is to defend. The 2nd is - if you have the ability - to spread the ball out with silky passes etc. But if you can't defend then you're not much use - basically the next version of David Luiz. But he can be a Rio Ferdinand under the right guidance of a proper manager.

Which is why if he wants to reach his potential he has to think much more about who his next manager is rather than wage packet.

 

[bastardo]

He's clearly talented. His biggest flaws are that he tries to complicate things and that is clearly fixable. People forget that he is only 21 years old, the past generation english defenders like Ferdinand and Terry didn't really come into their own until they were in their mid 20's.

 

[NeyMesSis]

He is soo damn good with the ball! amazing technique

 

[Adversus]

He's good but he's overrated.

The first job of a defender is to defend. The 2nd is - if you have the ability - to spread the ball out with silky passes etc. But if you can't defend then you're not much use - basically the next version of David Luiz. But he can be a Rio Ferdinand under the right guidance of a proper manager.

Which is why if he wants to reach his potential he has to think much more about who his next manager is rather than wage packet.

I think he has the talent. Unfortunately Martinez is ruining him.

If Pep goes to City and wants him then he should go there.

 

[xavisionary]

From what I can tell with Stones, he would do well to be pushed into midfield. Protect the back four and distribute, like a poor man's Busquets.

 

[Yannik]

And which team have won with two Umtiti's or other 20m defenders in this market?

Not quite sure what you expect as an answer here. There are a couple of examples for teams with defenders they brought in for 20m or less who have won Champions League titles or domestic league titles.

 

[FCBarca]

I think he has the talent. Unfortunately Martinez is ruining him.

If Pep goes to City and wants him then he should go there.

Player screws up so it's the coach's fault? Is that Toffee logic?

He had a great season as did Barkley under Martinez, their failure to build on that first season is less down to Roberto than it is the players themselves. Learn to stop scapegoating underwhelming performances

 

[Adversus]

Player screws up so it's the coach's fault? Is that Toffee logic?

He had a great season as did Barkley under Martinez, their failure to build on that first season is less down to Roberto than it is the players themselves. Learn to stop scapegoating underwhelming performances

You obviously don't watch a lot of Everton and I'm not getting into a Martinez debate but suffice to say your opinion is the minority with anyone who watches us play.

Case in point. Barkley is having a fantastic season even if he had a poor game yesterday.

 

[Jenks]

Player screws up so it's the coach's fault? Is that Toffee logic?

He had a great season as did Barkley under Martinez, their failure to build on that first season is less down to Roberto than it is the players themselves. Learn to stop scapegoating underwhelming performances

Martinez will probably be out of the door sooner rather than later. Considering the players Everton have and how the league has gone this season, they've underperformed massively. Still yet to win against a top 10 team I think.

 

[Barcaman]

So, what's the plan, let them keep Deu in exchange for Stones?

 

[God Serena]

That would work if Deu was on loan but with just a buyback slapped on him we don't have the kind of leverage to propose such a deal.

 

[FCBarca]

Martinez will probably be out of the door sooner rather than later. Considering the players Everton have and how the league has gone this season, they've underperformed massively. Still yet to win against a top 10 team I think.

Great story, nothing to do with blaming Martinez for Stones' poor play

 

[Adversus]

That would work if Deu was on loan but with just a buyback slapped on him we don't have the kind of leverage to propose such a deal.

There has been rumors of some sort of deal involving Bartra and the Deulofeu buyback. Personally I wouldn't be against the idea. I've always rated Bartra however not sure if he would agree to it.