Jude Bellingham

[El Gato]

Absolutely nothing wrong with using stats. Players won't always get good stats, that's nonsense and attackers won't always stand out in those obvious ones
G and A are perfectly fine for some claims and poor for others. Depends what the claim is

If a CM has 10 goals in half a season that's a clear indicator he's performing well
If a CB has barely any headers, that's in most cases poor

Basic stuff

 

[Don Juan Laporta Estruch]

He's gone up one place in my list compared to Barca midfielders, just doing enough to nick above Torre.

1) Olmo
2) Pedri
3) Casado
4) Gavi
5) Bernal
6) Fermin
7) Bellingham
8) Torre.
9) PING PONG.

You have to give credit when it's due.

 

[Maradona37]

Absolutely nothing wrong with using stats. Players won't always get good stats, that's nonsense and attackers won't always stand out in those obvious ones
G and A are perfectly fine for some claims and poor for others. Depends what the claim is

If a CM has 10 goals in half a season that's a clear indicator he's performing well
If a CB has barely any headers, that's in most cases poor

Basic stuff

A CM's job isn't to score goals - it's to control games and set the flow of the match, to get the team going. To intercept passes and passing lanes and win the ball too, to set tempo and generally be the engine. A CM can score goals and the team can still function poorly because he is poor qualitatively.

Fernandes is an AM but Man United struggle a lot partly because he is so poor in general play, dribbling, setting tempo, and the short passing game, losing the ball. But he will score a screamer or hit a long pass to create a chance, and guys like you will say he's brilliant.

What is more accurate to say is that you seem the type of guy to think a CM who scores 10 goals in a season is better than a CM who scores none. I don't believe that at all but you probably do.

Headers are not equal to goals. CBs have to win headers because they deal with crosses - heading is a big part of a CB's game. CMs scoring goals is a bonus - it's far from their primary job. Weird comment.

 

[Maradona37]

Anyway, @El Gato , the point is you and I have fundamentally different ways of playing football. I care much more about the general play outside of stats and about eye test. Maybe it's because I play football myself, you seem like you don't play, no offence.

 

[El Gato]

Lol not what was said at all
CM having 10 goals is good as not expected to do so. No claim is being made on his underperformance in normal duties

CB job is to defend, much of the time using their head. Nothing tough

 

[Maradona37]

CBs have a big part of their job as heading away crosses or long balls. CMs won't be dropped if they don't score - CBs will definitely be dropped if they let crosses come in constantly.

It's totally different and worrying you can't see the distinction.

Either way, the point is some players (and the subject of the thread is one of them) simply are stats cheat codes - it says nothing about their quality. Like I say Bruno Fernandes gets way better stats than Iniesta, his stats rival or surpass KDB, yet anyone with sense knows those two absolutely piss on him as a player from a skyscraper height.

Stats have their uses, but they have to be far deeper than G/A, and G/A are usually thrown out with absolutely no context whatsoever, as Tempt's graphic posted did earlier.

 

[El Gato]

Anyway, @El Gato , the point is you and I have fundamentally different ways of playing football. I care much more about the general play outside of stats and about eye test. Maybe it's because I play football myself, you seem like you don't play, no offence.

Haha "you don't play" projection
Easy lad

Viewing isn't very different. Absurd to take to discredit a stat for general application. If you have Haaland scoring 10 goals one season and 60 in another, are you gonna refer to the eye test to determine which season he played better in?

G/A is fine like others - depends how applied. If Carvajal ends with 15+ G/A it's quite obviously a useful tool
No need to hate the tool, hate the user

 

[Maradona37]

Haha "you don't play" projection
Easy lad

Viewing isn't very different. Absurd to take to discredit a stat for general application. If you have Haaland scoring 10 goals one season and 60 in another, are you gonna refer to the eye test to determine which season he played better in?

How can it be projection when I know I play and have played thousands of times?

You've taken an extreme. If Haaland's general play was miles better in the 10 scoring season, and in the 60 season he was playing like he is now, a donkey and passenger outside the box, you could absolutely say he was better in the 10.

It's about how many goals MAN CITY score, not how many HAALAND scores. If Haaland scores 60 but the team score 80, or Haaland scores 10 but they are scoring from everywhere and score 90, then the latter is better.


Anyway it is obvious you have a thing for Bellingham so will never back down or accept he's not the player you think he is.

 

[El Gato]

He can totally be a padder with 60 goals and would mean he played well to be set up 60 times. Again, conjuring up an assumption that team would have played worse. Missing the point entirely lad

 

[Windhook]

There are more stats outside of xG/xA that measure defenders/midfielders as well. That's why they have data analysts in every club, but judging only by data is like playing table football. Crucial aspects of football aren't registered, therefore you have scouting department.

 

[Maradona37]

I also never said G/A doesn't have its uses (if context is applied).

But when G/A implies Fernandes is miles better than Xavi and Iniesta, or Haaland pisses on Romario, you know it is flawed as fuck (though the latter especially brings in cross-era comparisons too).

 

[El Gato]

BTW nowt to do with Bellingham 12 G/A as that is actually poorer than what he's capable of so not really sure why getting knickers in a twist
I guess this is just saltiness over multiple Barca kids having to be shafted to match it lol

 

[Maradona37]

He can totally be a padder with 60 goals and would mean he played well to be set up 60 times. Again, conjuring up an assumption that team would have played worse. Missing the point entirely lad

I actually thought you knew a bit but you're proving you don't with such poor arguments.

Not denying positioning, but someone can score 60 goals and be terrible in open play and still be a problem. It does happen.

I never even said the team would play worse - but Aguero scored fewer goals and for me they were a far better team when they were sharing the goals around. So I have't conjured up an assumptin - it's a fact they scored more goals and got more points before Haaland arrived. Now he is not the only variable of course but it's still a big one.

 

[Windhook]

Another thing with the Americanization of the game. In NBA back in 2017 or 2018 they had to pick Russel Westbrook as MVP because he had the perfect stats, but his Oklahoma Thunder were nowhere near that.

 

[Maradona37]

BTW nowt to do with Bellingham 12 G/A as that is actually poorer than what he's capable of so not really sure why getting knickers in a twist
I guess this is just saltiness over multiple Barca kids having to be shafted to match it lol

I am not even a Barca fan.

Just saying it's an utterly pointless comparison as it says absolutely nothing about how any of the three players perform in general play. Any idiot can look at it and say Bellingham must be better without even being able to recognise the three men in the street.