Kylian Mbappé

El Gato

Villarato!
Comparing Paris "model" with Monacos, really?
Come now, Monaco is a respectable club pushing above its weight by doing smart decisions, Paris is just another club propped up by oil money, nothing special or admirable about that, they just money around, thats their entire model.

Zero need to delve into stereotypes. Investment is investment. Perez pumped heaps of money into Madrid in the time of need as well to save us after the shitshow of last 1-2 years of Lorenzo Sanz. The only ethical question with oil money is whether or not it actively breaks the league and kills off contenders, which in the case of any league other than Premiership it seems like it does. No less than Bundesliga players being attracted by Bayern. They do the same thing, but have recent CL success to help them retain the standard and negotiate zero losses on transfer fees, which PSG cannot do, which is why they throw money at stars they need.
 
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soul24rage

Senior Member
Nobody will know how good each bottom 10's are compared to each other. The only way to find that out is to have a europa league competition for the bottom 10s. Otherwise this conversation will never be agreed.
 

Donatello

Active member
Seems you edited your post, because apparently (according to my mail notification at least) you said at first "Ibra used to score 40+ goals", which was obviously wrong but tend to prove you had false ideas about Ligue 1.

Ibra scored more than 30 goals in Ligue 1 only once. His last season in France, which was very impressive. His other seasons ended with 30, 26 and 19 goals. Keep in mind though that he scored 28 goals in 32 appearances with Milan AC in Serie A, for his last season in Italy. He was at the top of his game when he left for Paris, and his numbers in France are very close to his numbers when he left Milan. While playing for PSG, he also scored 20 goals in 33 UCL games. It was overall the most prolific part of his career. He might have scored less in another league, we'll never know, but you're not talking about a player who was completely finished and became huge again when he arrived in France. The fact that Manchester United signed him, and that he was very successful there before his injury confirms that his french numbers aren't just due to an alleged weakness of the league.

Anyway, the reason is quoted your post earlier is that your argument ("PSG is shit, the proof is they can't destroy shitty teams") is the exact opposite of someone else's argument in the Rabiot thread ("in la Liga, lower tier teams manage to get good results against our best teams, which proves that La Liga is a tougher league than its french counterpart"). Hence the fact that it's useless for Jair (or for me) to fight against arguments like that: he just can't be right.

I would never say they're in the same league as Barca or RM, of course not, but that's not really what my post was all about. People tend to shit all over Ligue 1 as if LaLiga was filled with 20 incredible teams. Said it before, gonna say it again then: la Ligue 1 isn't as good as La Liga or EPL, obviously, but it's definitely not as bad as what everyone here think it is. There's a reason why most successful players in Ligue 1 are doing rather well in bigger leagues too. Of course there's always some exceptions (depending on the player's new team/new coach, his style of play, his general form, his adaptation and so on). But it couldn't be true if there was a gap such as what most people here imagine. There's a step, yes, but that's it.

I mistakenly put 40 & it was corrected. And he scored 38 goals in his last season fyi.

I respect your opinion, but there are some who think PSG are in same league as Barca and RM.

Agreed all 20 teams in La Liga aren't good enough, but the overall quality of at least the top 15 in La Liga is better than the top 15 in Ligue 1. While the gap widens if you compare the top ten teams of both leagues. and its miles apart when you comapare top 5 of both leagues.

PSG have a good team on paper, but its good for nothing unless they deliver on the pitch.
 
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Bulgroz

Senior Member
I mistakenly put 40 & it was corrected. And he scored 38 goals in his last season fyi.

I respect your opinion, but there are some who think PSG are in same league as Barca and RM.

Agreed all 20 teams in La Liga aren't good enough, but the overall quality of at least the top 15 in La Liga is better than the top 15 in Ligue 1. While the gap widens if you compare the top ten teams of both leagues. and its miles apart when you comapre top 5 of both leagues.

PSG have a good team on paper, but its good for nothing unless they deliver on the pitch.

PSG will have trouble in UCL this season imho, because even on paper their team isn't good enough. Neymar-Cavani-Mbappe is probable the strongest offensive trio in Europe after Mané-Firmino-Salah, but their midfield is problematic (and they have an absolutely incredible lack of depht in that particular area), they still haven't found a decent LB (unless Bernat turns out to be a good surprise) and I'm curious to see what they're gonna do with their keepers (Buffon is getting old, and Areola is not WC). Such an impressive offensive line-up will be enough to win the league though, especially since their main contender (Monaco) got much weaker. Lyon and Marseille are better than last year, but it's clearly not going to be enough to compete with PSG.

It's still very early to say though, because Tuchel is experimenting right now (going from 5-3-2 to 4-2-3-1 mid game for example) but I don't really see them going far this year in UCL. Everyone was expecting Kante or Rakitic, and not only did they sign no MD or MC, but they even sent Lo Celso to Seville. And decided to recruit... a striker (and a mediocre one, at that). A lot of my friends are PSG fans, and they have no idea where their team is going right now.
 

Donatello

Active member
PSG will have trouble in UCL this season imho, because even on paper their team isn't good enough. Neymar-Cavani-Mbappe is probable the strongest offensive trio in Europe after Mané-Firmino-Salah, but their midfield is problematic (and they have an absolutely incredible lack of depht in that particular area), they still haven't found a decent LB (unless Bernat turns out to be a good surprise) and I'm curious to see what they're gonna do with their keepers (Buffon is getting old, and Areola is not WC). Such an impressive offensive line-up will be enough to win the league though, especially since their main contender (Monaco) got much weaker. Lyon and Marseille are better than last year, but it's clearly not going to be enough to compete with PSG.

It's still very early to say though, because Tuchel is experimenting right now (going from 5-3-2 to 4-2-3-1 mid game for example) but I don't really see them going far this year in UCL. Everyone was expecting Kante or Rakitic, and not only did they sign no MD or MC, but they even sent Lo Celso to Seville. And decided to recruit... a striker (and a mediocre one, at that). A lot of my friends are PSG fans, and they have no idea where their team is going right now.

Every team has issues, no team is perfect. You could say our midfield isn't sorted aswell, that we don't posses a quality striker, Pique is aging, we haven't figured out our RB position.

Man city looked like a team with little to no issues, but still they got knocked out.
 

Jair Ventura

New member
Zero need to delve into stereotypes. Investment is investment. Perez pumped heaps of money into Madrid in the time of need as well to save us after the shitshow of last 1-2 years of Lorenzo Sanz. The only ethical question with oil money is whether or not it actively breaks the league and kills off contenders, which in the case of any league other than Premiership it seems like it does. No less than Bundesliga players being attracted by Bayern. They do the same thing, but have recent CL success to help them retain the standard and negotiate zero losses on transfer fees, which PSG cannot do, which is why they throw money at stars they need.

Marseille and Lyon are on the cusp of becoming top clubs on the level of Dortmund or Tottenham, and Monaco isn't going away. At the same time, the talent pool French clubs are pulling from is so deep(paris metropolitan area, first choice destination for African immigrants) that even clubs at the bottom of the table or in the second division are producing top talents: Nicolas Pépé, Ismaïla Sarr, Tanguy Ndombele, etc.

It's gotten to the point where French clubs are producing more players than English clubs have spots for, so there's quality players up and down the table that would have been sold for cheap to a Championship side only 3-4 years ago. This is coinciding with a new domestic broadcasting deal with Mediapro that's one of the most lucrative in Europe, as well as new law in France allowing professional athletes to have tax free income on their image rights. Both strengthen the finances of French clubs as well as make the league more attractive for top players. So the competition is in a good place.

It's also worth keeping in mind that France's weakest year of their last five will drop from their coefficient after this season, whereas Germany's worst was last season. So if France has a strong year in Europe they'll be in a good position to compete with Germany 4th place going forward.
 

Bulgroz

Senior Member
Every team has issues, no team is perfect. You could say our midfield isn't sorted aswell, that we don't posses a quality striker, Pique is aging, we haven't figured out our RB position.

Man city looked like a team with little to no issues, but still they got knocked out.

Of course, no team is perfect. But PSG had 2 LB last season (and they both were average): they sold one, and the other one's injured for several months. They're starting this season with a recruit who's been a Bayern substitue for the past 3 years, and a young player who never played in Ligue 1 before this season. In midfield, they have to good players (who already shown some limits in big UCL games though, Verratti in particular) with only Nkunku and a young player from the academy as subs ! While RM for example can still count on a midfield that's been dominating UCL for the past 3 years. Barcelona got an amazing depth now. Of course it's not sorted out yet, but no injury would be a huge obstacle for Barca. The same can definitely not be said about PSG.

All in all, they're not miles behind everyone else, of course not, but I think their flaws might be too big this season, unless Rabiot and Verratti step their game up a notch AND stay healthy the whole season. That's a huge "if".
 

Jair Ventura

New member
PSG will have trouble in UCL this season imho, because even on paper their team isn't good enough. Neymar-Cavani-Mbappe is probable the strongest offensive trio in Europe after Mané-Firmino-Salah, but their midfield is problematic (and they have an absolutely incredible lack of depht in that particular area), they still haven't found a decent LB (unless Bernat turns out to be a good surprise) and I'm curious to see what they're gonna do with their keepers (Buffon is getting old, and Areola is not WC). Such an impressive offensive line-up will be enough to win the league though, especially since their main contender (Monaco) got much weaker. Lyon and Marseille are better than last year, but it's clearly not going to be enough to compete with PSG.

It's still very early to say though, because Tuchel is experimenting right now (going from 5-3-2 to 4-2-3-1 mid game for example) but I don't really see them going far this year in UCL. Everyone was expecting Kante or Rakitic, and not only did they sign no MD or MC, but they even sent Lo Celso to Seville. And decided to recruit... a striker (and a mediocre one, at that). A lot of my friends are PSG fans, and they have no idea where their team is going right now.

First, I think Antero Henrique is incompetent and should be removed from the club for his failures this summer. That said, I have faith in Neymar, Mbappé, and Tuchel to get PSG past Napoli, Liverpool, and Red Star and into the round of 16. Granted, it will be tough given how unbalanced the team is, but if PSG can make it out of their group and into the winter break, they can sign someone like Ibrahim Sangaré or Ibrahima Sissoko during the winter mercato in order to strengthen their midfield in preparation for a UCL push.

Also, I think PSG needs to begin looking for a replacement for Cavani. He turns 32 soon and leaves the attack unbalanced as he can't play between the lines or support the wings. Oh, and I like Stanley N'Soki at LB.
 

Bulgroz

Senior Member
N'soki has been good so far, yes. But it's still a huge gamble to have either him or Bernat as a starter when you want to win the UCL.

And I'm pretty sure Mbappe will be the replacement for Cavani. He's shining as a winger, but imho it's as a 9 that he'll become the WC superstar he's bound to be. That would mean that PSG would need a new RW though. Oh, by the way, I don't think I've mentioned it yet, but I know for a fact that PSG tried to include a priority on Malcom when they sold Sabaly to Bordeaux. It was Antero Henrique's idea, but Bordeaux declined.
 

Jair Ventura

New member
N'soki has been good so far, yes. But it's still a huge gamble to have either him or Bernat as a starter when you want to win the UCL.

And I'm pretty sure Mbappe will be the replacement for Cavani. He's shining as a winger, but imho it's as a 9 that he'll become the WC superstar he's bound to be. That would mean that PSG would need a new RW though. Oh, by the way, I don't think I've mentioned it yet, but I know for a fact that PSG tried to include a priority on Malcom when they sold Sabaly to Bordeaux. It was Antero Henrique's idea, but Bordeaux declined.

I feel N'soki has the makings of a star. I'm more confident with him at LB than I've been with anyone since Maxwell. As for that RW? Ismaïla Sarr or Leroy Sané is who I think they should go after next summer. Both seem to fit the mold of the type of players Tuchel likes.

I was sad to see Malcom go to Barca's bench. Wanted him at Paris eventually or even to stay at Bordeaux.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Marseille and Lyon are on the cusp of becoming top clubs on the level of Dortmund or Tottenham, and Monaco isn't going away. At the same time, the talent pool French clubs are pulling from is so deep(paris metropolitan area, first choice destination for African immigrants) that even clubs at the bottom of the table or in the second division are producing top talents: Nicolas Pépé, Ismaïla Sarr, Tanguy Ndombele, etc.

Yes, pool is deep, always was, 75% of the names I can think of that aren't Spanish or German are either French or African developed in France at one point or another. The question for years has just been to do with players not wanting to stay in the Ligue 1. I mean, do you blame them? Ridiculous taxation up until lately (I think?), everyone focusing on Messi-Ronaldo or Premiership in the last 15-20 years.. Who was the last Ligue 1 player to end up on any cover of a football game? Players don't want to play with or against anybody that isn't famous or doesn't play in a globally recognised brand. It's a shame really. Coaching in top4-6 teams in France is very good, or at least managing the talent they already have at their disposal maybe.

Quality is there, marketing isn't. But it seems to be getting better and France will probably overtake Germany in that regard if PSG keep their trio and Lyon/Monaco pull their weight.

This is coinciding with a new domestic broadcasting deal with Mediapro that's one of the most lucrative in Europe, as well as new law in France allowing professional athletes to have tax free income on their image rights. Both strengthen the finances of French clubs as well as make the league more attractive for top players. So the competition is in a good place.

This is cool. Got any links?

Also lol, I was writing the above when I got to this bit...
It's also worth keeping in mind that France's weakest year of their last five will drop from their coefficient after this season, whereas Germany's worst was last season. So if France has a strong year in Europe they'll be in a good position to compete with Germany 4th place going forward.

Yup. Totally agree.
 

Bulgroz

Senior Member
Regarding TV rights, this link sums it up: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-rights-canal-plus-empty-handed-idUKKCN1IU29O

At 1.15 billion euros per season, Ligue 1 is gonna be on par with Serie A, well above Bundesliga. It's a 60% bump, starting in 2020. It's allegedely one of the main reason why a trust fund bought Bordeaux this year: just with this new TV deal, the club's budget is gonna be way higher in 2 years. Even without improvement to the team.

Regarding image rights, I don't have a decent english link unfortunately. But it's supposed to allow the clubs to pay save up to 20% on salary taxes, which is a huge deal when talking about football players.

Those two facts combine could definitely help the french league to step up. That being said, Bundesliga and Seria might also benefit from the same type of measures in the meantine (the new tax law in Italy for example is far more beneficial for football teams than anything France has ever done, from what I've gathered).
 

Jair Ventura

New member
Yes, pool is deep, always was, 75% of the names I can think of that aren't Spanish or German are either French or African developed in France at one point or another. The question for years has just been to do with players not wanting to stay in the Ligue 1. I mean, do you blame them? Ridiculous taxation up until lately (I think?), everyone focusing on Messi-Ronaldo or Premiership in the last 15-20 years.. Who was the last Ligue 1 player to end up on any cover of a football game? Players don't want to play with or against anybody that isn't famous or doesn't play in a globally recognised brand. It's a shame really. Coaching in top4-6 teams in France is very good, or at least managing the talent they already have at their disposal maybe.

This was true for much of the last two decades, but as I say all the time, things are changing:

PSG: Neymar, Mbappé, Buffon, Alves, Cavani, Di María, Verratti
Monaco: Falcao, Jovetić, Chadli, Lopes, Glik
Lyon: Depay, Fekir, Dembélé, Aouar
Marseille: Thauvin, Payet, Gustavo, Strootman

Purely from the stand point of marketing and name recognition I feel Ligue 1 compares favorably to Serie A and the Bundesliga especially.

Quality is there, marketing isn't. But it seems to be getting better and France will probably overtake Germany in that regard if PSG keep their trio and Lyon/Monaco pull their weight.

Check this out:

Ligue 1

https://www.youtube.com/user/ligue1fr

https://twitter.com/Ligue1_ENG?lang=en


Bundesliga

https://www.youtube.com/user/bundesliga

https://twitter.com/Bundesliga_EN


Serie A

https://www.youtube.com/user/legacalcioserieatim

https://twitter.com/SerieA


Would like to hear your thoughts.


This is cool. Got any links?

Also lol, I was writing the above when I got to this bit...


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The day Ligue 1 joined the big leagues. <br><br>New €1.15bn TV deal will make Ligue 1 Europe's 3rd most lucrative league, behind only Premier League (€1.66bn) & Bundesliga € (1.16bn), for domestic rights <a href="https://t.co/YW8wp3R7sh">pic.twitter.com/YW8wp3R7sh</a></p>— Matt Spiro (@mattspiro) <a href="https://twitter.com/mattspiro/status/1001727544486453248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Chinese-owned group Mediapro have ousted Canal Plus (a traditional powerhouse of French broadcasting) for rights to Ligue 1 games, and as a result the league’s revenue from domestic TV rights will shoot up almost 60% and will break the €1bn mark for the first time. L’Equipe’s front page on Wednesday morning referred to the announcement as ‘Le Big Bang’. A boost for Ligue 1’s coffers, for sure, but perhaps also the start of a new era for French football.

The new deal is set to come into effect from 2020 (so there are still two years before the league actually sees the fruits of this development) and, on the face of it, this looks to be of greatest benefit to the current big clubs in the league.

Paris Saint-Germain probably don’t need this extra cash, though it will make them richer, too. For Marseille, Lyon and Monaco it will help them to hold onto their best players for longer, and perhaps even attract better stars. Indeed, this deal will put France ahead of Spain’s La Liga for the moment (though Spanish rights will be up for grabs again soon and will probably grow again, too) and Italy, whose clubs voted unanimously to cancel their own contract with Mediapro the day before Ligue 1 signed their contract.

https://digitalsport.co/what-ligue-1s-bumper-media-rights-deal-means-for-the-rest-of-europe
 

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