Kylian Mbappé

[Jair Ventura]

What you said would really depend on what you mean by historical giant. If you mean making a mark in history, then yes I would agree with you (although I think the term "historical giant" refers more to GOATs, rather than someone who made a mark in history). Playing very good in the WC and scoring in the WC final as a teenager since Pele is an incredible achievement and he will be in the WC history forever. There's no denying that.

If you meant historical giant as one of the GOATs, then no, I would not agree with you yet. He still has a long way to go, but he made a very very good start to be potential be talked in that conversation.

I don’t think he’s a GOAT yet, no. As you wrote above, I’m only recognizing his achievement of becoming a world champion as historical.

 

[Bulgroz]

Mbappé is a finisher while Dembélé is a creator on the pitch who assists more, has much superior vision and who can dribble 3-4 defenders and players in one action opening the field completely and creating nummerical superiority. There is little difference in terms of quickness between them. Now Dembélé is adding goals to his game. Goals of crucial importance that win points and games, not "meaningless goals" scored in thrashings.

Not only that Dembélé plays with the GOAT in Messi and most prolific goalscorer in football history. Not only that, one of the best attackers of his generation if not the best in Luis Suárez who is the best goalscorer in the past 10 years only behind Messi and C. Ronaldo. Mbappé is playing in Ligue 1 (yes, it might be annoying to hear but it is a fact that it is a vastly inferior league than La Liga) with Cavani and Neymar. No comparison here.

Di María IS setting the world alight at QSG statistically compared to his stint at Man Utd where he failed spectacularly. Di María has scored 57 goals in 158 appearances for QSG. That is more than he scored for Benfica, RM and Man Utd combined. That should tell you everything.

Anyway I won't take anything away from Mbappé but my points remain and I don't take people seriously who compare him with Messi and Ronaldo when it is painfully clear that he is not fit to clean their boots.

A WC win for a stacked France team (where he was not the best player either) where France only meet Belgium (of top teams but they are historical nobody though) when they won their WC, is not something that I will say "oh, that puts him in the category of Messi and Ronaldo". Sorry.

Mbappe already assisted and scored in crucial games, more than once (see his quarter finals against Man City, his goal against Argentina, his pass that should have given France the lead against Belgium, the way he single handedly won the game against Marseille this season three minutes after going in...). He's not just "scoring during trashings".
The fact that Dembele is playing with one of the best striker in the world and with one of the best players in history should actually make his job easier by the way.

And no, scoring 57 goals is not "setting the world alight". You can say that about Neymar, who's often stellar with PSG. Not about Di Maria, who's scoring on free kicks and long range shots, but is useless most of the time (the fact that you added "statistically" between your two post means a lot).

All in all, I get what you're saying, and I agree that you can't compare Mbappe to Ronaldo and Messi. I would never do that. But you can't compare Dembele to them either, and so far, Dembouz has achieve MUCH less than Mbappe.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Mbappe already assisted and scored in crucial games, more than once (see his quarter finals against Man City, his goal against Argentina, his pass that should have given France the lead against Belgium, the way he single handedly won the game against Marseille this season three minutes after going in...). He's not just "scoring during trashings".
The fact that Dembele is playing with one of the best striker in the world and with one of the best players in history should actually make his job easier by the way.

And no, scoring 57 goals is not "setting the world alight". You can say that about Neymar, who's often stellar with PSG. Not about Di Maria, who's scoring on free kicks and long range shots, but is useless most of the time (the fact that you added "statistically" between your two post means a lot).

All in all, I get what you're saying, and I agree that you can't compare Mbappe to Ronaldo and Messi. I would never do that. But you can't compare Dembele to them either, and so far, Dembouz has achieve MUCH less than Mbappe.

C. Ronaldo also assists but is anyone in doubt that Messi is the superior player in this regard and in terms of vision? Same case with Dembélé when compared to Mbappé.

Marseille? Come on. Rivalry aside, QSG is 3 times the team if that can do it. Look at the recent statistics. Marseille has not won in an eternity if I recall.

Not really when it is statistically harder to play with the most prolific goalscorer in history and the third best goalscorer in this century after the GOAT and C. Ronaldo. La Liga is also a much harder competition and we are not as dominant as QSG is in Ligue 1. Not only that, Dembélé plays in a position on the pitch where he has fewer opportunities to score than Mbappé. So I am not buying your argument at all.

Yes, it is. Compared to his past history. It is because he is playing for the vastly superior team in a one-horse league and in a much easier league to score in. Not sure how that can be argued against.

Just compare Neymar's numbers for QSG and his numbers for us. Neymar almost scores 1 goal in every single match in France.

Never said that Dembélé can be compared with Messi or Ronaldo. That would be as ridiculous. However I rate Dembélé as the better talent who has more room to improve. Aside from the other legitimate points that I made.

Not only that, Mbappé is much more hyped than Dembélé or any other talent. 95% of all who hype him do not watch QSG outside of a few CL games. They just look at stats. Just like against Rennes on Sunday. A game that I watched due to betting on over 2.5 cards (won, btw, lol). One of the 3 resident QSG fans here, also called his game out but 95% of all other football fans (who did not watch the game) would just look at the stats.

I would not be writing the posts that I have been writing if I did not watch QSG from time to time (watched them 8-10 times this season, excluding the Napoli and Liverpool games in the CL that I watched) and I saw the same patterns in Mbappé's game that I am describing. So I am not basing my arguments on thin air. I also have zero reason to say that Neymar is the brain and architect of QSG offensively as I dislike that guy while I have nothing against Mbappé and would like to see him here even though I doubt that he would be the best fit compared to him playing for RM. I respect Mbappé's work ethic and his life story.

Anyway, it does not seem that we disagree too much.

 

[Jair Ventura]

Now that we’ve got the propaganda out of the way...

 

[Devils]

Dembouz FC President checking in.

[tw]1087355755668430853[/tw]

[tw]1088375821650325505[/tw]

The Dembouz FC train is unstoppable.

Since last season (ridden with injuries and difficulty adjusting to Barca) Dembouz's growth has been exponential. While Mbappe's growth is more linear.

You can't debate mathematics. The numbers don't lie.

Dembouz is a nuclear weapon, dawg. No doubt about it, Dembele is well on course to surpass Kylian.

Different levels.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Dembouz FC President checking in.

[tw]1087355755668430853[/tw]

[tw]1088375821650325505[/tw]

The Dembouz FC train is unstoppable.

Since last season (ridden with injuries and difficulty adjusting to Barca) Dembouz's growth has been exponential. While Mbappe's growth is more linear.

You can't debate mathematics. The numbers don't lie.

Dembouz is a nuclear weapon. No doubt about it, Dembele is well on course to surpass Kylian.

Different levels.

Sorry, I am the eternal president of the Ousmane Dembélé bandwagon train. I wrote a post about Dembélé few games into his Rennes career on the most visited Spanish Barça forum (blaugranas) that got defunct late last year but has emerged again using a new server. Was talking about him here ages ago too. Been his greatest defender since my return here on this forum.

Well, we can share the presidency but only if I get the stamp of seniority for having discovered him earlier. Much like about Ibrahima Konaté, the future CB GOAT.

Anyway agree and thanks for supporting my arguments in this thread. Dembélé > Mbappé. Simple as that. Of course I won't say no should Dembouz do his magic and get Mbappé "on our side".

 

[Jair Ventura]

You guys should contact Deschamps and tell him he’s doing things wrong.

 

[Leo_Messi]

You guys should contact Deschamps and tell him he’s doing things wrong.

Another idiotic one-liner from the resident troll.

You do realize that Deschamps is one of the most conservative and defensive managers out there, that few managers would ever, regardless of talent, use a 19 years old and recently turned 21 years old player in a starting lineup during a WC where the goal was to win given the stacked squad, many traditional heavyweights being out of the WC due to failing to qualify and the easy group and route to a possible final.

Griezmann, being the star of the team, was going to start regardless of anything. Giroud, while not even 25% of the player or talent that Dembélé is, needed to start due to him offering something else (size, laying the ball of and creating space) in Deschamp's system. A midfield consisting of Kanté, Matuidi and Pogba was a given too considering that Deschamp's was the manager. This only gave room to 1 other attacker and as Mbappé was/is the more established player, did not come right off a season (2017-18) where he missed almost 2/3 of all games like Dembélé, it was a no brainer decision.

Try more idiotic one-liners next time around. You are close to beating a record on this forum, I believe.

BTW even despite the above mentioned facts, Dembélé was the preferred option in 2 games if I recall correctly in the group stage.

 

[Jair Ventura]

Another idiotic one-liner from the resident troll.

You do realize that Deschamps is one of the most conservative and defensive managers out there, that few managers would ever, regardless of talent, use a 19 years old and recently turned 21 years old player in a starting lineup.

Griezmann, being the star of the team, was going to start regardless of what. Giroud, while not even 25% of the player or talent that Dembélé is, needed to start due to him offering something else (size, laying the ball of and creating space). This only gave room to 1 other attacker and as Mbappé was/is the more established player, did not come right off a season (2017-18) where he missed almost 2/3 of all games like Dembélé, it was a no brain decision.

Try more idiotic one-liners next time around. You are close to beating a record on this forum, I believe.

I realize that Deschamps just won a WC two years after reaching a Euro final. And I realize that Mbappé, whose strongest at LW & ST, was played at RW, Dembélé's preferred position, to great effect. Ultimately Dembélé was kept out of the team by Blaise Matuidi and young Kylian, which directly contradicts the nonsense you're pushing here.

But hey, you know better than their coach, because you're an accomplished manager yourself.

 

[Leo_Messi]

I realize that Deschamps just won a WC two years after reaching a Euro final. And I realize that Mbappé, whose strongest at LW & ST, was played at RW, Dembélé's preferred position, to great effect. Ultimately Dembélé was kept out of the team by Blaise Matuidi and young Kylian, which directly contradicts the nonsense you're pushing here.

But hey, you know better than their coach, because you're an accomplished manager yourself.

Deschamps failed in the European Championship at home. He also failed in the World Cup 4 years ago.

He was kept out for obvious reasons. Coming off a season where he barely played. New country, new club (giant of the game), best league in the world etc. Of course he would not have been preferred over an Mbappé who performed in his own save environment (Ligue 1) and had the bigger trust of Deschamps due to playing more during the season and for France leading up to the World Cup.

A 4 week long tournament consisting of 7 games against the likes of Australia, Peru, Denmark, Argentina (their version last year and in the past years), Uruguay (a shadow of what they once were), Belgium (only real challenge on paper that they barely won over with an invincible Mbappé) and Croatia (who had 2-3 hours of football more, vastly inferior on paper yet played better and dominated the final for large portions of it) while playing for a stacked France (most stacked team in the tournament) and scoring 3 goals in the process, is not going to have a say in how both their talents will unfold 10 years from now.

Besides Dembélé won the same World Cup. Also the World Cup is not what it once was. Other than prestige the level of play is vastly inferior to the CL for instance. Everyone knows about this and it is no surprise that national teams who barely play any meaningful games during the year, show a much worse level than elite clubs. However that is another discussion altogether.

 

[Jair Ventura]

Deschamps failed in the European Championship. He also failed in the World Cup 4 years ago.

- Reaching a Euro final isn't a failure. Especially when it set them up to win the WC.

- Whatever happened four years ago is less relevant than what occurred 7 months ago.

He was kept out for obvious reasons. Coming off a season where he barely played. New country, new club (giant of the game), best league in the world etc. Of course he would not have been preferred over an Mbappé who performed in his own save environment (Ligue 1) and had the bigger trust of Deschamps due to playing more during the season and for France leading up to the World Cup.

- He was kept out because Kylian is a better player.

- Downplaying Ligue 1 holds no relevance when Kylian also outperforms Dembélé in the UCL and international competitions.

A 4 week long tournament consisting of 7 games against the likes of Australia, Peru, Denmark, Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium and Croatia while playing for a stacked France (most stacked team) and scoring 3 goals in the process, is not going to have a say in how both their talents will unfold 10 years from now.

None of us know's what's going to happen 10 years off, but right now Kylian is recognized as the better player by most of the world for good reason.

Besides Dembélé won the same World Cup.

As a bench player/rotational option. Not as a holder.

 

[KingLeo10]

gary lineker scored 6 goals in a WC campaign. jair ventura the resident troll is putting mbappe over some of his own brazilian legends.

2018 WC mbappe v similar aged romario, R9, and R10. tell me which ones you'd take in each instance.

 

[Jair Ventura]

gary lineker scored 6 goals in a WC campaign. jair ventura the resident troll is putting mbappe over some of his own brazilian legends.

2018 WC mbappe v similar aged romario, R9, and R10. tell me which ones you'd take in each instance.

No one put Mbappé anyone(except Dembélé). You're simply too dumb to understand that Kylian can achieve something historic without it becoming a comparison between he and GOAT's.

 

[Cule4life]

Can't wait for March when Jair inevitably disappears.

 

[Jair Ventura]

Can't wait for March when Jair inevitably disappears.

Can’t wait for you to stop worrying about me. Find a woman to focus your energy on.