Kylian Mbappé

fergus90

fergus90

Senior Member
How’s our Kylian getting on so far?

Edit: just noticed he’s on the bench. Deschamps out!
 
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malvolio

malvolio

Senior Member
Morten said:
Feels like it became a "thing" after Messi and Ronaldo got old, to say that star players in general may be a negative for the team.
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Exactly, many fools are going the 'team is bigger than individuals' route. Forgetting that every team has stars, just not stars like prime Messi or CR.
 
malvolio

malvolio

Senior Member
Laplacian said:
Chelsea in 2012 and 2021. Like seriously "uh guys i actually prefer a team with budget players because they're a real team...ew the best players in the world."
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Even 2012 Chelsea had some legendary stars - Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc And they were a very good team in CL for a couple of seasons before winning it.
 
behindbrowneyes

behindbrowneyes

Well-known member
Laplacian said:
The only reason so many users here have eaten this "super talented players are bad for the team" drivel is because it's a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that we can't afford any of them. If prime Neymar at the age of 24 became available, you'd all take him. If prime Messi came along, you'd all take him too. It's sickening watching some of you trying to justify and rationalize how a 23 year old player capable of scoring 30+ goals a season and changing the game completely by himself, already the best left winger in the world, is somehow "bad" for the team. As if having a team of budget wingers and forwards like Adama, Dembele, Luuk is somehow better than having a team with Mbappes, prime Neymar, Messis, and prime Aguero. As if a team of elite players/super stars are incapable of "playing as a team." Quite literally, the most succesful teams domestically and in Europe throughout the 2010s were squads filled with super stars/the best players in their positions; from MSN Barcelona, to Zidane's Madrid, Jupp's Bayern, to Klopp's Liverpool; they all had multiple top players in their positions. Quite literally the only exception to that trend was Chelsea in 2012 and 2021. Like seriously "uh guys i actually prefer a team with budget players because they're a real team...ew the best players in the world."

Lmao, get real.
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I'll tell you what:
I've seen Barca buying Dembele for 140M, Coutinho for 135M+ and Griezmann for 120M. None of these superstars justified their price tag approximately. For two of them wasn't even really a position in the team without justifying the system. I'd rather have talents and young players develop into a Salah at the club than buying one for such a huge price tag. Okay, Mbappe looks like a sure bet, but so did Coutinho and Hazard. Who would've thought that these players would fail like they did? Everyone thought they'd crush numbers with how they were flying in the Prem.
Yes, those mentioned prime teams had the best players in their squads, yet Liverpool managed to crush Barca with fucking Origi and Shaqiri. Those are in no way top players in their positions. Why did they do so well without players like Firmino and Salah? Because their system and ideology of playing football was their star, not single players.
I like how you mention Adama, Dembele and Luuk and neglect that Barca has FDJ, Pedri and Gavi in midfield. What did PSG win with Neymar, Messi and Mbappe? They'll win the Ligue 1 like every year, but they got eliminated by one of the worst Madrid's in a while. This year it was all about Champions League for PSG and they failed miserably. They didn't even come close.
Like I said, everyone would take Mbappe, but it won't be the end of the world if he doesn't come. Auba or Dembele aren't exactly top top players, but currently they are delivering numbers no one expected. And that's because Xavi has built a team that works as a unit. And yes, that squad is talented and could develop into something like Bayern or Liverpool. It's not that Klopp built Liverpool in a month.
Star players aren't necessarily bad for the team, but they should fit in perfectly like Salah does in Liverpool or Lewandowski at Bayern. Not that they ever had anything close the status of Messi, CR or even Mbappe. They are star players without having the attitude of being one. I don't see that with Mbappe, but that doesn't mean he won't be successful. He'll be, I'm 100 percent sure of it. I just wanted to say that it is not necessary to have a player like that, but a good selection of very good players. And Barca is on that way, already making smart reinforcements for next season without having the money to spend big. Not gonna lie. I'd change Mbappe with Ferran within a heartbeat, but I think Ferran will prove to be a very smart transfer without liking him personally for the player he is on the pitch. He is not near as flashy as Mbappe, but I can imagine him getting close to become a Thomas Mueller and that would be great. Never liked Mueller's style, but this guy is a machine.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
behindbrowneyes said:
Of course, anyone would take Mbappe.

HOWEVER,

We had Messi for more than a decade and I'm so grateful for everything he did for Barca. So many memories, so many beautiful goals, so many trophies. Having a player like him brings other issues though. If you have a big player, you have to build the team around him. What does this make in the dressing room, to the coach, to the decision making? In modern football it's hard to be a big star, because it has been proven that teams like Liverpool, Bayern and Chelsea have won the CL without having one big star but the team being the main star. Then there is City too who have been quite dominant in PL without a main star. Look at the shitshow PSG has become with 3 big stars. When you create a team, you can beat anybody. Look at what Xavi did with that Barca team in a short amount of time. Has beaten Atletico, Bilbao, Napoli, Madrid.
Currently the best teams in world football are the best TEAMS. Not Salah, not De Bruyne, not Lewandowski. Very, very good players, but they are just a part of 11 team players fighting for each others, not 10 running and fighting for them. There are so many angles of how these teams can get results. When you've got a player like Messi, Mbappe merely every action has to go through them . What do you do by that? You minimize your chances of being successful percentage wise if you play every action through one guy. Those players can be unpredictable, but having those tactics makes the team predictable. When you have a team like current Barca, where all of them are talented, you have so many options of how you can get to success instead of being stuck in one way. Look at that team and how head- and planless they were right after Leo left. There main solution was passing to Messi. I love Messi, but look at the togetherness of that current team. That's a real team, that's a proper team, that's a team in the way of Bayern, City, Liverpool. Not on that level yet, but you can see that there is something growing. That togetherness in combination with talent is just a tough thing to beat.

Asked about a possible return of Leo, Xavi said:
“[Messi] is the greatest of all time and he will always have the door open for him at Barca,”
“As long as I am Barca’s coach, he is welcome any day. I think we owe him a big tribute.
“I think that as he is under contract with PSG, there is not much we can say. But if he wants to he can come to watch training and speak to the coach. What he has given us is priceless.”

What he said is the standard answer he had to say. Now, do you think Xavi went home and entertained the thought of even trying to get Messi back to Barca? I guess he was even praying that Messi won't be available, because he has built something already that he can get excited about. That's his product, his idea, his structure of the team, the players on the pitch, the movement of the team. Now, if Messi or any other big star would come through the door, the first thing Xavi has to do is move practically all of the other pieces in the team around to shoehorn that star into that team. And we don't have even to talk about it what it means in terms of team chemistry, respect etc. to have a player like that in the team.
Everybody would be excited to have Mbappe in current team, but truth is current fromt 3 wouldn't be the same with Mbappe in the team. He is a star player and he'll demand special treatment in some way or form. Everything in the team will change just because of one player. Some of it to the positive because of his class, but some of it to the negative.


That's the reason why I'm not afraid if Barca can't land Haaland or Mbappe. Current star is the team and I really enjoy it. You can still add different kind of talents to the team and become better without getting a big star. Lewandowski or Salah weren't that big of stars, but they've become stars while being part of a real team, a team, that is playing, fighting and running for each other without having the burden of having to satisfy one player's ego. I know this sounds harsh, but that's how I see it. I can say without envy that I'm excited to see how Madrid will do with Mbappe and how they'll solve the problem of having to move some pieces around that are working quite well for them currently. By that I mean Vinicius and Benzema especially.
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If mbappe is available you sign him no questions asked
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
Laplacian said:
The only reason so many users here have eaten this "super talented players are bad for the team" drivel is because it's a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that we can't afford any of them.
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Depends on the person. Maybe coping mechanism for some or maybe people just left traumatized after we worked ourselves into financial crisis with the overspending on "star" players.
 
Jadentheman

Jadentheman

Active member
DonAK said:
The team is indeed the most important thing, however players like Mbappe can change a game when most things don't work. That's why having a player like that is a big advantage IF the team itself is balanced and everyone works together as they do in Liverpool with Salah.

I believe that's one of the reasons why City sometimes have struggled in the Champions League. When nothing works they don't have that one attacking player that can do something incredible and change a game in a moment.

There's obviously very few of such players to begin with.
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City has De Bruyne but I agree with the rest
 
Respekt_III

Respekt_III

Anti-everything
System is always > than a single player unless that player is genuinely goat level and Mbappe is not that.
Would he be an awesome addition to a team with a great system, yes without a doubt,but stars for the sake of stars without a system or players working hard for each other doesn't work, need both to be an elite team.
 
S

SmilerBam

Well-known member
Morten said:
Feels like it became a "thing" after Messi and Ronaldo got old, to say that star players in general may be a negative for the team.
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Well, actually, football is going in that way. Where that it matters is the connection between the player, the speed and stamina. I mean look at Mbappe. I don't think he's close to Ronaldo and Messi at their respective age, yet he's considered the best nowadays in world football. Because current football lacks genuine individuality.
 
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