Lionel Messi - v7

[Vilarrubi]

hardly. right now lewa>>>>>>messi

Start of season he was dire. But in 2021 even without goals he’s created goals for us with assists/pre-assists/long balls. No ones on his level right now imo and like other have said level of this team is very low.

 

[BarcaOG]

So Messi has a (very good) performance against Sevilla just two weeks after getting embarrassed by Mbappe in the Camp Nou and doing nothing against Sevilla away (the same Sevilla Dortmund, 5th in the Bundesliga), defeated 2-3 away) and he's suddenly the best player in the world right now? Christ. Mbappe ended that conversation when he annihilated Messi's barca in our own stadium and made Messi look like what he is: a 34 year old player well-past his best.

I don't buy the 'weaker team' argument because your claim is that Messi is, right now, the world's best. If the world's best can't impose himself in a match, then what's the point of being the best? If you are going claim Messi is 'the best' then he better perform like the best. Part of being 'the best' involves being decisive in important matches. Messi's failure to do exactly that mean's were effectively out of the CL and almost out of the Copa.

If your claim is correct, then: 1) Messi has to eliminate Sevilla mid-week. We beat them yesterday; it is entirely possible. 2) Messi has to have a good, solid performance against PSG. I don't mean he has to score a hattrick in Paris and take Barca to the next round, but he has to impose himself by creating chances, perhaps scoring a goal, and generally making PSG sweat. 3) Messi has to perform--either assisting or scoring--against Atleti and Real in the weeks that follow.

I could care less if Messi scores against mid-table and relegation teams. Being the best means making a difference when it matters and the stakes are high.

 

[raskolnikov]

So Messi has a (very good) performance against Sevilla just two weeks after getting embarrassed by Mbappe in the Camp Nou and doing nothing against Sevilla away (the same Sevilla Dortmund, 5th in the Bundesliga), defeated 2-3 away) and he's suddenly the best player in the world right now? Christ. Mbappe ended that conversation when he annihilated Messi's barca in our own stadium and made Messi look like what he is: a 34 year old player well-past his best.

I don't buy the 'weaker team' argument because your claim is that Messi is, right now, the world's best. If the world's best can't impose himself in a match, then what's the point of being the best? If you are going claim Messi is 'the best' then he better perform like the best. Part of being 'the best' involves being decisive in important matches. Messi's failure to do exactly that mean's were effectively out of the CL and almost out of the Copa.

If your claim is correct, then: 1) Messi has to eliminate Sevilla mid-week. We beat them yesterday; it is entirely possible. 2) Messi has to have a good, solid performance against PSG. I don't mean he has to score a hattrick in Paris and take Barca to the next round, but he has to impose himself by creating chances, perhaps scoring a goal, and generally making PSG sweat. 3) Messi has to perform--either assisting or scoring--against Atleti and Real in the weeks that follow.

I could care less if Messi scores against mid-table and relegation teams. Being the best means making a difference when it matters and the stakes are high.

Easy to say if the team is much weaker. Its not an individual sport.

 

[KingLeo10]

So Messi has a (very good) performance against Sevilla just two weeks after getting embarrassed by Mbappe in the Camp Nou and doing nothing against Sevilla away (the same Sevilla Dortmund, 5th in the Bundesliga), defeated 2-3 away) and he's suddenly the best player in the world right now? Christ. Mbappe ended that conversation when he annihilated Messi's barca in our own stadium and made Messi look like what he is: a 34 year old player well-past his best.

I don't buy the 'weaker team' argument because your claim is that Messi is, right now, the world's best. If the world's best can't impose himself in a match, then what's the point of being the best? If you are going claim Messi is 'the best' then he better perform like the best. Part of being 'the best' involves being decisive in important matches. Messi's failure to do exactly that mean's were effectively out of the CL and almost out of the Copa.

If your claim is correct, then: 1) Messi has to eliminate Sevilla mid-week. We beat them yesterday; it is entirely possible. 2) Messi has to have a good, solid performance against PSG. I don't mean he has to score a hattrick in Paris and take Barca to the next round, but he has to impose himself by creating chances, perhaps scoring a goal, and generally making PSG sweat. 3) Messi has to perform--either assisting or scoring--against Atleti and Real in the weeks that follow.

I could care less if Messi scores against mid-table and relegation teams. Being the best means making a difference when it matters and the stakes are high.

Lewa didn't score in the final v PSG either, despite being on a strong team. Calm down with the hysteria.

 

[BarcaOG]

Blah blah blah.

>Messi scores a few goals and has a couple of decent performances: WORLDS BEST IN 2021 UNDISPUTED and UNDEBATABLE

>Messi fails to deliver for barca in the CL for the nth time: THE TEAM IS WEAK IT'S NOT HIS FAULT


You want to have it both ways and it doesn't work like that. Either he's the best or he's not--and if he is, he better prove it.

 

[BarcaOG]

Lewa didn't score in the final v PSG either, despite being on a strong team. Calm down with the hysteria.

That's fine: 1) Messi didn't score against Juve in 2015 but he was still the best because he was still decisive and he had rolled Bayern in the semis.
2) The claim is not, LEWA is the best; the claim is MESSI is the best. The onus is on those making the assertion to prove that.

 

[KingLeo10]

That's fine: 1) Messi didn't score against Juve in 2015 but he was still the best because he was still decisive and he had rolled Bayern in the semis.
2) The claim is not, LEWA is the best; the claim is MESSI is the best. The onus is on those making the assertion to prove that.

Lewa's performance v PSG was not even close to Messi's versus Juve. Messi was involved in all 3 of Barca's goals, especially the Suarez one where he dribbled from the halfway line and folded Barzagli.

 

[KingLeo10]

And you're twisting the argument. The claim is that it's not so clear cut who is the best in 2021 between Messi and Lewa.

You're the one who implied Messi was a scrub compared to Lewa in 2021 with "Lewa >>>>> Messi". No one is saying the converse.

 

[BarcaOG]

Lewa's performance v PSG was not even close to Messi's versus Juve. Messi was involved in all 3 of Barca's goals, especially the Suarez one where he dribbled from the halfway line and folded Barzagli.

And? Messi was indeed the best in the world in 2015. Any idiot could see that. The claim under dispute is whether he's the best right now, in 2021. And he is not.

 

[BarcaOG]

And you're twisting the argument. The claim is that it's not so clear cut who is the best in 2021 between Messi and Lewa.

You're the one who implied Messi was a scrub compared to Lewa in 2021 with "Lewa >>>>> Messi". No one is saying the converse.

If I could pick any player in the world for a decisive CL match right now (and in the past 4 or so years), I'm not picking Messi. No way. I'd gladly take Lewa.

Perhaps I overstated my claim. Messi has been very good in 2021, much better than at the end of 2020. I love to see it. Does that mean he's the best in the world, as you guys are saying? Nope, no way.

You're conveniently leaving out what Mbappe did to Messi and Barca just two weeks ago. In what universe can PSG beat 1-4 at the Camp Nou with Mbappe bagging 3 and Messi is still somehow the world's best?

 

[Vilarrubi]

So Messi has a (very good) performance against Sevilla just two weeks after getting embarrassed by Mbappe in the Camp Nou and doing nothing against Sevilla away (the same Sevilla Dortmund, 5th in the Bundesliga), defeated 2-3 away) and he's suddenly the best player in the world right now? Christ. Mbappe ended that conversation when he annihilated Messi's barca in our own stadium and made Messi look like what he is: a 34 year old player well-past his best.

I don't buy the 'weaker team' argument because your claim is that Messi is, right now, the world's best. If the world's best can't impose himself in a match, then what's the point of being the best? If you are going claim Messi is 'the best' then he better perform like the best. Part of being 'the best' involves being decisive in important matches. Messi's failure to do exactly that mean's were effectively out of the CL and almost out of the Copa.

If your claim is correct, then: 1) Messi has to eliminate Sevilla mid-week. We beat them yesterday; it is entirely possible. 2) Messi has to have a good, solid performance against PSG. I don't mean he has to score a hattrick in Paris and take Barca to the next round, but he has to impose himself by creating chances, perhaps scoring a goal, and generally making PSG sweat. 3) Messi has to perform--either assisting or scoring--against Atleti and Real in the weeks that follow.

I could care less if Messi scores against mid-table and relegation teams. Being the best means making a difference when it matters and the stakes are high.

That first paragraph sounds like something out of a newspaper. Mbappe EMBARRASSES Messi. How old are you? lol Mbappe embarrassed Barca and our defence more specifically. Way more than Messi.

When in football has the worlds best player at the time imposed himself without a competent team around him? Even when Messi was clearly the worlds best player he had competence around him. Same goes for Lewandowski. When you’ve got clowns like Lenglet and Stegen in CL there’s no hope. Put prime 2011-2012 Messi in this team and you’ve still got clowns around him.

He should have scored that chance in Sevilla first leg definitely. We’ll see what happens. Not sure about 2nd leg and PSG 2nd leg being a dealbreaker, if PSG dominate like last time not sure what Messi can do. Like I said before, in a game where we had clown defence and got dominated he scored his pen and set up chance for Dembele to make it 2-0.

 

[KingLeo10]

You're conveniently leaving out what Mbappe did to Messi and Barca just two weeks ago. In what universe can PSG beat 1-4 at the Camp Nou with Mbappe bagging 3 and Messi is still somehow the world's best?

You want him to be the best in every single match he plays all season? He just had a great performance v Sevilla away and he was the only one who actually scored v PSG. Our other forwards can't even score penalties if you follow our matches. And these are pens in meaningless games like Copa. You have a habit of going full blown overboard with "why didn't Messi SINGLE HANDEDLY win us the CL tie. Irrespective of teammates. Irrespective of circumstances". It's a very inflexible view and we've had a lot of heated arguments on this very point before. And you're not going to budge and neither am I.

Besides, the broader point is that the world's best doesn't mean as much right now as it did over the last 10-15 years. Because in that time frame, the best in the world level was actually otherworldly thanks to Messi and CR7.

 

[BarcaOG]

Yeah, whatever. If we can't expect anything from the 'worlds best' then that descriptor is literally meaningless, of no account, inconsequential.

You can't idolize individual players on one hand and scream TEAM SPORT on the other.

 

[BarcaOG]

You want him to be the best in every single match he plays all season? He just had a great performance v Sevilla away and he was the only one who actually scored v PSG. Our other forwards can't even score penalties if you follow our matches. And these are pens in meaningless games like Copa. You have a habit of going full blown overboard with "why didn't Messi SINGLE HANDEDLY win us the CL tie. Irrespective of teammates. Irrespective of circumstances". It's a very inflexible view and we've had a lot of heated arguments on this very point before. And you're not going to budge and neither am I.

Besides, the broader point is that the world's best doesn't mean as much right now as it did over the last 10-15 years. Because in that time frame, the best in the world level was actually otherworldly thanks to Messi and CR7.

No, not all season. I've literally said countless times that I don't care whether he scores against Cadiz or Elche. But I do care a great deal if he performs in the CL and against Atleti and Real. And this doesn't mean scoring only: Messi didn't score in the 5-0 against Real in 2010 but he was the best on the pitch. If you want to say he's the best, he has to make a difference, in some way, when it counts. Otherwise it's a meaningless claim.

 

[KingLeo10]

Yeah, whatever. If we can't expect anything from the 'worlds best' then that descriptor is literally meaningless, of no account, inconsequential.

You can't idolize individual players on one hand and scream TEAM SPORT on the other.

Where was world's best Lewa when Liverpool beat the fuck out of Bayern at Bayern's home in 18/19.

Why didn't he win that game by himself? Like you're wanting Messi to win us games?

How come Lewa only made CL final when his team was strong?