Luis Enrique

silvia

New member
Lucho is also tasting some sugar completed by Pep.
And it is true that youth players are getting shorter times and places than Peps, most of them going out on loan without getting zero minute.
In my view, he first buys old-and-out-in-his-peak players for backup rather than sparing that places to lamasia players.
Maybe he doesn't have guts to trust unproved youngsters in his eyes? Or he doesn't care more.
I expect better, because he was b team coach, and this season he doesn't have that much pressure on all trophies, so it will be clear what he is thinkin. so maybe im wrong.
Just worrying, this blaugrana shirt can lose its color to blank white.
 
V

vigneshFCB

Guest
Lucho's integration of youth (Sandro, Munir, Roberto have developed under him) is probably superior to Martino's integration of youth.
 

Alik

Moderator
What other top club in the world has many young academy players breaking through to their first team?

It's not the norm. Given the players we have at our disposal, I think Lucho has done well.

Perhaps, Deulofeu should have been handled differently and we'll see how Samper does this season.
 

KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
What other top club in the world has many young academy players breaking through to their first team?

It's not the norm. Given the players we have at our disposal, I think Lucho has done well.

Perhaps, Deulofeu should have been handled differently and we'll see how Samper does this season.

We did the best for Deulo, imo. IIRC we sold him with a buyback, so now he can focus on becoming a regular at his new team and then if he begins fulfilling his potential, we can bring him back.
 

DennyCrane

Senior Member
This is always a possibility and I remarked similarly last preseason when Deulofeu barely played...yet here we are with yet another prized & pursued talent and we're to believe it again?....possible but the probability decreases

As I mentioned before, we're seeing a shift in the club's philosophy but its being minimised due to the treble producing trident...Incredibly short sighted

Lucho clearly focused on results rather than developing the club's youth talent and we've already seen the club isn't focused on developing them properly within the cantera as seen with both the B team & how few Barça youth players are featuring for La Roja

I don't see this as dramatic. It was very easy for Pep/Laporta to put such an emphasis on La Masia players and portray that as a philosophy when it produced players of Busquets caliber; it was literally the most pragmatic thing for them to do. And even then, the club always had high-profile complements from elsewhere.

And imo, it's a fallacy to assume that a different board or a different coach or anyone else would be able to better oversee the next Xavi coming out of our cantera. The pile of über-talents coming from La Masia from Puyol to Busquets created the illusion for many culés that this is somehow projectable through specific selection and practice, when it really isn't. Imagine the probability of finding a talent like Xavi, Iniesta or Busi. Then imagine having them all at the same club. And then imagine having them in a timeframe that enables them to play together for a few years. The probability of this is almost zero. Barca hit the jackpot several times in a row. And in between, many have forgotten how many players didn't make it in the meantime.

The risk of missing out on a player who has the potential to become a first team regular is actually pretty low, since talent above a certain level is obvious. Samper is Samper, and he's ridiculously talented, and will make it to the first team finally if he's patient enough. And if that involves being loaned out somewhere else in the meantime to get some playing time under his belt which Barca can't grant him, so be it. Real talent will always find it's way to the top of the pile.

But Samper is a minority. Every player who makes it through our cantera has undisputable talent, yet the main question is what he's gonna do with it and whether he'd be able to displace a first team regular in the long run. And as hard as that sounds, the overwhelming majority of La Masia graduates won't realistically be able to do so for a variety of reasons. And I agree that one of these reasons is the fact that our first team is filled to the brim with elite players. But another reason is each youth player's individual ceiling which no amount of development, practice and granted minutes will change.

For every Pique, you'll have a hundred Muniesas, for every Busquets, you'll have a thousand JdS and for every Messi you'll have a million Bojans. And in my opinion, we're not doing the youth players a favour to pretend otherwise.
For example, just watch the patient midfielder be turned into a patient rightback for the sole reason to squeeze him in somewhere on the teamsheet. Woudn't it be better for everyone involved if he was just transfered to a fitting club where he'd actually be able to play as a midfielder ? And remember that this guy is 23 already. At this point, Barca is stalling his development rathan than promoting it.

A counter-example is Montoya. He didn't cut it under four(!) coaches while at Barca, but will now have a realistic fighting chance at Inter. The dos Santos brothers, unable to make it around these parts, played some fine football for Villarreal. Bojan and Muniesa found a place as well. And many many more will head in a similar direction. Naturally, every culé wants homegrown talent to succeed, but we should stay realistic when evaluating players. Samper is closest to the first team at the moment, followed by Grimaldo and Adama. I have severe doubts about the rest.
But all things considered, Samper at the time would only be able to take S. Roberto's spot on the bench. Adama only needs to take a glimpse at the first team sheet to know his place. Their future with this club will depend on how patient they are, but it will be their decision to make, just like it was Thiago's decision, or Fabregas decision years ago for that matter.


The fact that many alumni won't cut it in our first team doesn't take anything away from our youth system. One can take pride in the achievements of the club's youth system even if these players will only play elsewhere, especially since La Masia is meant to be a life school after all. All La Masia graduates are still developed to a degree where they can, at the very least, form the spine of any club smaller than Barca in La Liga. Which means that it's fulfilling it's purpose.
 

Kohe321

New member
Great post [MENTION=7430]DennyCrane[/MENTION], I completely agree. :thumbsup:

Lucho is doing things right by bringing in older and more seasoned quality from the transfermarket, it's really not an exaggeration to equate "the golden generation" to winning the lottery. There is nobody from our youth ranks that can come in and challenge for more time right now, and pretending otherwise and insisting on giving them gametime over current squad players would result in a big dropoff in quality. Barca can't afford that.

After all, we're supposed to challenge for all three titles every season first and foremost, and if we can do that with a squad mainly consisting of homegrown talent in our squad - great. But that's not always going to be the case if the talent is just not there. We're not a talent hatchery first and a top team second, it's the other way around.

Also, there's the point that has been discussed before of making the most of Messi's remaining prime years. It's way better to build a team with pieces that can give results right away, than to waste the time we have with the best player ever by insisting on playing young talents over seasoned players.

And it's not like we're overlooking our homegrown talents either. Roberto and Rafinha both grew last season, and especially Rafinha took some big steps towards the end. He's doing very well for a 22 year old right now, and the thought of him some day becoming a starter isn't looking so unrealistic. Bartra has been given the chances he's deserved, but sadly hasn't showed enough to warrant more playingtime than what he's been given. Again, it's pragmatic, and mostly I get Lucho's choices.

All that said though, I agree that it's very frustrating that Gumbau has played more than Samper in the pre-season games. I'd love to know the reason behind this.

Knowing Lucho's fitness fanaticism, it could be that he simply didn't do his pushups deep enough in training. :lucho:
 
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BarcaOG

Banned
Nah, the thing with Lucho is that he doesn't sugar-coat things. He won't take a youngster with the first team if he doesn't deserve it. The thing is that many people on this forum overrate our young players big time.

Spot on. Have we already forgotten that it took Pep two seasons to fully integrate Busquets into the first team? Busquets! A world-class, world-cup winning talent! Developing young players is three parts faith, patience and prudence. Lucho has done a fine job.

Or do we want to see him throw raw and inexperienced La Masia players into high-profile, must-win matches like when Pep tossed Tello into the 1-2 Clasico defeat at the Camp Nou? Sure, that's an extreme example. But some of the posts here give that impression.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Lucho is far from an anti-La Masia coach. He's shown faith in Munir, Sandro, Rafinha, and Roberto on many occasions. It has come to a point where he actually trusts them and counts on them to fulfill roles in the squad (I strongly feel that Sandro, Rafinha, and Roberto will have bigger roles to play under Lucho this season). Other talents like Adama/Halilovic he has afforded chances to when deserved. Adama doesn't deserve any more than he's getting, and Halilovic is getting fair opportunities.

The prospects he hasn't 'prioritized' are actually fair assessments. Montoya was not going to cut it and Lucho correctly gauged this, whereas Deulofeu didn't show the right qualities or learning curve to grow into his talent here and be of use to the team. Bartra gets the chances he deserves but he simply isn't good enough to be at the very top of the pecking order (preseason proves this).

I'd say the only examples of Lucho mishandling youth players are not giving Grimaldo any chances at all and, as of now, not truly prioritizing Samper. The Gumbau thing is there too but that's more funny than harmful. There's still plenty of time for these things to change though. For the most part he's been up to par with his handling of youth and definitely better than Tata/Tito were.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Back in 2009 after Eto'o left, why didn't Pep promote a young CF from Barcelona B, and, instead, payed for a galactico-type signing in Zlatan? Why did he bought Alexis in 2011, instead of promoting some Barca B talent? How are the signings of Zlatan and Alexis in 2009 and 2011 any different than the signings of Suarez and Neymar in 2013 and 2014 in terms of policy? To me, it's pretty similar, the same policy with one exception. We now have to buy midfielders as well, not only defenders and attackers, because Xavi is gone, Iniesta is getting older, Thiago left. When we talk about Pep's youth promotions, we mainly speak about Busquets and Pedro to some extent. Messi and Iniesta were already top players. Pique was a transfer, like Cesc. The rest of the players were established Barca leaders or acquisitions. Xavi, Puyol, Villa, Mascherano, Alves, Abidal, Henry, Eto'O, Alexis, Yaya, Keita, Zlatan, Adriano. And those are only first-teamers or first choice from the bench. I'm not even counting Caceres, Chygrinskyi, Keirrison, Afellay etc.
 
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silvia

New member
I'd say the only examples of Lucho mishandling youth players are not giving Grimaldo any chances at all and, as of now, not truly prioritizing Samper. The Gumbau thing is there too but that's more funny than harmful. There's still plenty of time for these things to change though. For the most part he's been up to par with his handling of youth and definitely better than Tata/Tito were.


Oh Tata is the worst coach and Tito... sorry not mention again.
but who can deny Pep and tito did quite a job.
Busquets was so raw and had many flaws, messi, iniesta, xavi they were beast in cantera and segunda b still just huge potential, but who see it exploded them in first team were coaches.

no one will be perfect in segunda A because it is professional league, and 17-19 year old their physical is not just grown, of course not fully experienced.
so it is great B team stays in segunda b, with their youth level league.

But now see, Deulofeu leaved, Samper not getting chance, most are considering leaving.

I guess door for first team is too high, but they are getting old, just earned treble, transfer ban(haha....) so now is perfect time to prepare rebuilding.

we have a last friendly today, i want to see Samper...!
 

KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
but who can deny Pep and tito did quite a job.
Busquets was so raw and had many flaws, messi, iniesta, xavi they were beast in cantera and segunda b still just huge potential, but who see it exploded them in first team were coaches.

o_O
 

xXKonan

Senior Member
Luis Enrique: "Pedro exit rumours? There's no news."

Luis Enrique: "We're good when we're 100%, but if not we're not that good anymore. Iniesta injured? Doesn't seem to be bad."

Luis Enrique: "We need to improve in defense. Opponents can't have that much space. We worked on it, but we'll have to work harder."
 
Should we be worried about the defense or not? Seems like Masche may be what hold the team defense together. Either that or pique has gone back to his old ways. Hope it's not the latter.
 

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