Manuel Agudo Durán(Nolito)
- Thread starter DonAK
- Start date
Caramel
New member
Do they think they know better than the coach? If he wants him why don't try to get him? Instead of maybe pushing an unwanted player on him instead
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Because the coach only knows a limited set of players. He's not a scout. He doesn't have the time to see other players play.
Besides, Lucho got his way last season with Arda and Aleix. He can't have it his way every time, or else we'll end up signing Nolito, Iborra and co all the time and lose out on other possibly better prospects.
Robert and the scouts are there for a reason.
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BarçaBarça
New member
I understand him. He can't wait for us forever, and have to make a decision. It is a shame, because he would have been good for us, if he joined in January when we truly needed depth, but now it seems too late already. The biggest flaw with him is that he needs to play out of position to be a Suarez-backup, and that is not preferable.
Of course we need young blood more than oldies, but we could buy + loan out a prospect or two, if we got Nolito, and truly wanted Gabriel Jesus/Sanabria/Dembélé or the likes. We will never get Dybala/Reus or someone like that to sit on the bench anyway. Even in our financial situation it must be possible to buy someone like Ousmane Dembélé for 15 M. and loan him out 1-2 years to Dortmund or buy Davinson Sanchez for 5 M. and loan him out to Ajax for 1-2 years, or am I dreaming here?
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Messi983
Senior Member
Problem here is that players have to agree with that buy and loan idea and most just don't.
Also, clubs like Dortmund and Ajax prefer to buy players because they can sell them for profit in a couple of years. Why would they develop players for a year or two and then return them to us for no compensation? Doesn't make any sense for them. I think the best way for this system to work is to buy players from smaller La Liga teams and loan them back to them for a season or two. Something that I think we'll do with Lemos if we in the end buy him.Other thing is to do what we've done with Denis. Buy youngsters for Barça B (but it's harder now that we are in Segunda B), let them play there for a season and then loan/sell with buy-back them for a season or two until they are good /mature enough to return to our first team.
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Problem here is that players have to agree with that buy and loan idea and most just don't.
Other thing is to do what we've done with Denis. Buy youngsters for Barça B (but it's harder now that we are in Segunda B), let them play there for a season and then loan/sell with buy-back them for a season or two until they are good /mature enough to return to our first team.
I dont get this logic. Other top clubs sign players and loan them out to another team all the time. Why would Ajax agree to get a great player for free? The question is why wouldnt they agree? Why is Andreas Christensen playing in Gladbach on loan? They get a great player, the become a better team, win trophies etc, isnt that a good thing?
Messi983
Senior Member
We are loaning players too. We've done that with Halilović for example. We can loan players to smaller La Liga teams as I said. Loaning players to other (inferior) leagues like Eredivisie doesn't make much sense if we want them to get used to spanish football (specially with non-Spanish player like Halilović).
Ajax and Dortmund are big and financially strong enough clubs to prefer their own players over loanees. Ajax signed Sanchez for 4 or 5M, if he develops good they can sell him for at least 15-20M if not they can probably at least recuperate the money they paid for him. They couldn't do that if they'd only get him on loan. Not hard to see why they'd prefer to buy him if they can afford that which they obviously can. And player himself also prefered to join them directly over signing for us and then going out on loan, which is also understandable.
BVB signed Dembele for "only" 15M, but there are apparently clauses that can increase his transfer fee to 30-40M, so not exactly that cheap. And he wanted to join them because he'd get regular playing time there which he wouldn't here. Again, it was his preference to join BVB, so we (or any other interested club) couldn't do anything about that.
Chelsea signed Christensen on free transfer to their academy when he was 16 and they loaned him out to Gladbach last season after playing 2 or 3 seasons for their youth teams. So about the same if we loan out some of our youngsters from La Masia which we do regularly, no big deal here.
But Chelsea is the most extreme example I know when it comes to overbuying and loaning out players (I think they often sign players they don't really need just so other clubs can't sign them as well). They had 30 or so players on loan last season and there are small chances any of them will ever play competitive game for their first team as they are just buying new experienced/proven players every year instead of bringing some youngsters back and giving them a fair chance to establish themselves. How can they do that? Well, they just offer talented, but mostly unproven players higher wages that most clubs are willing to do. I don't like their model and we also can't afford that. It's also not proven to work for them so far except for Courtouis. Yes, they made some profit with players like KDB and Lukaku but if the goal of all those loans is to improve their first team longterm, then they didn't make much out of this system so far. Maybe that will change in the near future but until that happens I'll be skeptical about success of their model.
What we can afford is to buy 1 or 2 youngsters every year either for Barça B (we did that with Alen and Denis recently and will continue to do so) or to loan them out to other Primera clubs like we intend to do with Lemos. But I don't think we'll ever pay 20M for a youngster and then loan him out to another big club.
Ajax and Dortmund are big and financially strong enough clubs to prefer their own players over loanees. Ajax signed Sanchez for 4 or 5M, if he develops good they can sell him for at least 15-20M if not they can probably at least recuperate the money they paid for him. They couldn't do that if they'd only get him on loan. Not hard to see why they'd prefer to buy him if they can afford that which they obviously can. And player himself also prefered to join them directly over signing for us and then going out on loan, which is also understandable.
BVB signed Dembele for "only" 15M, but there are apparently clauses that can increase his transfer fee to 30-40M, so not exactly that cheap. And he wanted to join them because he'd get regular playing time there which he wouldn't here. Again, it was his preference to join BVB, so we (or any other interested club) couldn't do anything about that.
Chelsea signed Christensen on free transfer to their academy when he was 16 and they loaned him out to Gladbach last season after playing 2 or 3 seasons for their youth teams. So about the same if we loan out some of our youngsters from La Masia which we do regularly, no big deal here.
But Chelsea is the most extreme example I know when it comes to overbuying and loaning out players (I think they often sign players they don't really need just so other clubs can't sign them as well). They had 30 or so players on loan last season and there are small chances any of them will ever play competitive game for their first team as they are just buying new experienced/proven players every year instead of bringing some youngsters back and giving them a fair chance to establish themselves. How can they do that? Well, they just offer talented, but mostly unproven players higher wages that most clubs are willing to do. I don't like their model and we also can't afford that. It's also not proven to work for them so far except for Courtouis. Yes, they made some profit with players like KDB and Lukaku but if the goal of all those loans is to improve their first team longterm, then they didn't make much out of this system so far. Maybe that will change in the near future but until that happens I'll be skeptical about success of their model.
What we can afford is to buy 1 or 2 youngsters every year either for Barça B (we did that with Alen and Denis recently and will continue to do so) or to loan them out to other Primera clubs like we intend to do with Lemos. But I don't think we'll ever pay 20M for a youngster and then loan him out to another big club.
Vilarrubi
New member
Point being?
He's been consistently good for the last 2/3 seasons at Celta, if we don't get a better option than him for 20 million or less were stupid. He also knows the league and our coach.
BarçaBarça
New member
Problem here is that players have to agree with that buy and loan idea and most just don't.
Yes, we should be and loan back to smaller La Liga teams, but the same logic applies here: Why would those players accept this model? I know not everybody does, but we sure should keep trying, but I'm not sure we have done everything we could the last couple of years - Jesus Vallejo is an example of one that slipped away. The example with Nolito + a young buy+loan-out was mostly to put the "oldie"-debate into perspective. We can buy him + 1 or 2 youngsters for the same money as e.g. Gameiro, and in that case I would prefer the first model.
Yes, Chelsea is extreme and we should not become like them or like Madrid who bought Ødegaard because of marketing/PR-stunt!. Ajax and Dortmund was just examples - I'm all for loaning out to La Liga teams, that makes much more sense, if possible
I think we agree most of the way, I just imagine it is possible to get more Halilovic and Denis-signings in the future, because buy+loan-deals are possible, also for non-La Liga players.
Icarium
Lifestealer
There is a high chance he will move to city. Gundogan and Nolito good signings but not good enough. Gundogan if fit is damn good but he has to stay fit. Nolito is a squad player. They need someone who can replace Aguero who misses 30% of games due to injuries. Bony for sure is not that guy. They have enough wingers actually.
But you said this:
You say most players dont agree to be bought and loaned to get experience in another team, but that happens all the time. Of course, not some very expensive player who is coveted by half of Europe, but "most players" dont agree with it? I really disagree with that.
You are also claiming that it doesnt make sense to get a good player for free on loan. You said clubs dont want to develop a player they dont own, even if their team becomes much better and they win trophies. This is what I dont understand and disagree with you on. Hell, we even loaned out Bojan to precisely Ajax a few years ago. RM loaned out Casemiro to Porto last season. Gladbach is another team that was happy to take Christensen. These are not bottom of the table clubs either, but CL teams.
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barcafan161
Active member
They have like a 200-250 million budget...they will get who they want for the most part here and there.
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