Mavericky Puig

[Rory]

I don't see him as a cm at all. He could have a future as a cam. One of the things we've struggled with is getting the ball in that space between the opposition midfield and defence and then releasing a pass. Puig is probably the one player who could do that well. It's his flaws with his positioning whether that's a risk worth taking but if setup in a formation with a cam then it wouldn't matter too much. He would have the roll of being a cdm/cb harasser with his pressing, positioning would be secondary. If we have a lead we need to keep then just sub him out and put a cm in and change shape.

What we've tried with the squad so far is obviously not working.

I would also add a good performance vs boca is no indication of top quality but then you can only play who is in front of you.

 

[Bobo32]

He had a pretty wonderful game yesterday, but I don't think it was better than his game v. Atletico for example. He has proven top quality against top opposition before. I think it is easy to underrate Boca as well. I certainly don't think they looked worse than the bottom teams of the league.

This talk about positioning I take as something someone who doesn't really understand positioning brings up as "the last straw" more or less, hoping that others don't understand positioning, either.
It should be explained just what in his positioning is meant to be "flawed", because I think it is excellent, it is maybe his main strength.
A hint is that he passed the ball 81 times yesterday for example, he is always in that region of 80-120 passes per 90 that pretty much only Xavi was regularly. Puig is coming deep to get the ball less than Xavi was.
His game yesterday was a masterclass of positioning more than anything else; how he could threaten with these runs inbehind so much, forcing their RB to get inside the pitch more, opening up the flank, and how he was otherwise positioned in the gap all the time, asking for the tougher line breaking pass so often, that the defenders didn't dare though until Mingueza played LCB and found him three times nicely. But by staying in the middle of that gap, that Xavi wants occupied, he asks the defenders and the midfielders to break their shape or leave him free, and he is very quick to make those small adjustments when they move.
Without following the ball around or leaving his space (that Pedri or Frenkie for example love to do) he was probably the one with most touches of the ball yesterday, and he is always ready for a one touch pass and he is very rarely caught without options. His few ball losses are mostly from lack of concentration, or attempts to play very difficult balls.

The nicest moment for me was probably his quick first touch into space there before his "1-2" with Coutinho in the second half.

 

[Rory]

He had a pretty wonderful game yesterday, but I don't think it was better than his game v. Atletico for example. He has proven top quality against top opposition before. I think it is easy to underrate Boca as well. I certainly don't think they looked worse than the bottom teams of the league.

This talk about positioning I take as something someone who doesn't really understand positioning brings up as "the last straw" more or less, hoping that others don't understand positioning, either.
It should be explained just what in his positioning is meant to be "flawed", because I think it is excellent, it is maybe his main strength.
A hint is that he passed the ball 81 times yesterday for example, he is always in that region of 80-120 passes per 90 that pretty much only Xavi was regularly. Puig is coming deep to get the ball less than Xavi was.
His game yesterday was a masterclass of positioning more than anything else; how he could threaten with these runs inbehind so much, forcing their RB to get inside the pitch more, opening up the flank, and how he was otherwise positioned in the gap all the time, asking for the tougher line breaking pass so often, that the defenders didn't dare though until Mingueza played LCB and found him three times nicely. But by staying in the middle of that gap, that Xavi wants occupied, he asks the defenders and the midfielders to break their shape or leave him free, and he is very quick to make those small adjustments when they move.
Without following the ball around or leaving his space (that Pedri or Frenkie for example love to do) he was probably the one with most touches of the ball yesterday, and he is always ready for a one touch pass and he is very rarely caught without options. His few ball losses are mostly from lack of concentration, or attempts to play very difficult balls.

The nicest moment for me was probably his quick first touch into space there before his "1-2" with Coutinho in the second half.

For me he leaves his position too much, eager to get involved in areas of the pitch he is not needed. This also leaves a gap in the area he once was which can easily result in an overload in that area. This sort of thing will lead to more dangerous attacks from the opposition.

Also come on Bobo, Puig has shown extremely little to suggest he will be good enough for us and yet you say people who bring up his positioning simply don't understand positioning, that's such a shutdown of a conversation and unnecessary. His positioning when playing as a cm isn't quite there. That's why I think as a cam it would work where he has much more freedom to move around wherever he likes. It's not the only thing people have concerns with. I for one think he hesitates when he has the ball in the cm area. There's also all the physical limits he has but that doesn't bother me as much as it does others.

 

[Porque]

He had a pretty wonderful game yesterday, but I don't think it was better than his game v. Atletico for example. He has proven top quality against top opposition before. I think it is easy to underrate Boca as well. I certainly don't think they looked worse than the bottom teams of the league.

This talk about positioning I take as something someone who doesn't really understand positioning brings up as "the last straw" more or less, hoping that others don't understand positioning, either.
It should be explained just what in his positioning is meant to be "flawed", because I think it is excellent, it is maybe his main strength.
A hint is that he passed the ball 81 times yesterday for example, he is always in that region of 80-120 passes per 90 that pretty much only Xavi was regularly. Puig is coming deep to get the ball less than Xavi was.
His game yesterday was a masterclass of positioning more than anything else; how he could threaten with these runs inbehind so much, forcing their RB to get inside the pitch more, opening up the flank, and how he was otherwise positioned in the gap all the time, asking for the tougher line breaking pass so often, that the defenders didn't dare though until Mingueza played LCB and found him three times nicely. But by staying in the middle of that gap, that Xavi wants occupied, he asks the defenders and the midfielders to break their shape or leave him free, and he is very quick to make those small adjustments when they move.
Without following the ball around or leaving his space (that Pedri or Frenkie for example love to do) he was probably the one with most touches of the ball yesterday, and he is always ready for a one touch pass and he is very rarely caught without options. His few ball losses are mostly from lack of concentration, or attempts to play very difficult balls.

The nicest moment for me was probably his quick first touch into space there before his "1-2" with Coutinho in the second half.

Good post, but do you agree (or disagree) that the best place to have Puig to take advantage of all his positives (and hide his weaknesses) would be in a attacking mid/free role ala Riqulme in Villarreals 4312?

It's a position that has become obsolete in modern football, but on the other hand, hasn't really been tested with a modernised playing version of a playmaker. For example Riquelme (or later day Messi) never pressed from this position which Puig does/would.

It's the space that would benefit Demir more (mentioned in his thread) and possibly Pedri (though I like the idea of DMC for him as expressed before) who was naturally an offensive player before being repositioned here so we have alot of options for this interpretation. Hell, even Coutinho.

 

[Bobo32]

For me he leaves his position too much, eager to get involved in areas of the pitch he is not needed. This also leaves a gap in the area he once was which can easily result in an overload in that area. This sort of thing will lead to more dangerous attacks from the opposition.

Also come on Bobo, Puig has shown extremely little to suggest he will be good enough for us and yet you say people who bring up his positioning simply don't understand positioning, that's such a shutdown of a conversation and unnecessary. His positioning when playing as a cm isn't quite there. That's why I think as a cam it would work where he has much more freedom to move around wherever he likes. It's not the only thing people have concerns with. I for one think he hesitates when he has the ball in the cm area. There's also all the physical limits he has but that doesn't bother me as much as it does others.

It was not a shutdown but an encouragement to expand. I have to say I still sense it's more of an emergency explanation, a cliche, from you and others, than a true opinion though.
But ok, you say you think he is too mobile. Did you think this yesterday? If you watch the little video, it was all from the left half space, always free, never out of position...
Pedri for example is much more roaming I'd say, both in offence and defence.

I liked that he showed the intention to run inbehind the defence, and that he - as always - was very eager to press, especially after having lost the ball. I think these things are crucial for a team that should play much more patiently, but must also be much more daring in defence and threatening with the ball so as not to be predictable.
I think this thing about leaving space in behind is one of the worst things for Barcelona to worry about right now, they need to get into the habit of moving forward when they lose the ball, and be sure that the players behind follow, leaving the space behind the defence if any. I think Xavi still wants this, he talks about it. Barcelona need to sell their gems and build something completely different if they should compete by playing a low and patient defence instead, they have barely one player fit for that style, but a very good squad and youth program for the other style that brought them success in the past.

Puig is good at covering and keeping position too, though.

 

[Bobo32]

Good post, but do you agree (or disagree) that the best place to have Puig to take advantage of all his positives (and hide his weaknesses) would be in a attacking mid/free role ala Riqulme in Villarreals 4312?

It's a position that has become obsolete in modern football, but on the other hand, hasn't really been tested with a modernised playing version of a playmaker. For example Riquelme (or later day Messi) never pressed from this position which Puig does/would.

It's the space that would benefit Demir more (mentioned in his thread) and possibly Pedri (though I like the idea of DMC for him as expressed before) who was naturally an offensive player before being repositioned here so we have alot of options for this interpretation. Hell, even Coutinho.

I think he can play from a lot of positions. Right now, I'd say he should be played at Depays position.
In Xavis 3-2-2-3 he could play both in one of the DM as well as the AM positions, but he could also play winger or forward I think. Maybe AM is the most suitable position yes.
I think Gavi plays very well as LCM in 4-3-3 and can't really complain if Xavi prefers Gavi there and doesn't dare to play them both at the same time (as Rijkaard didn't dare to play Iniesta and Xavi or even Deco and Xavi). But I think Puig is very much good enough in that position, and that his style suits the position perfectly.

I think since Riquelme, it has been tough to get a #10 involved in the play that much. That area of the pitch is well defended, and Puig would maybe find it as tough to get a lot of the ball from there. But it might work yeah, it would be roughly the same as a 4-3-3 with him as the CF.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Good post, but do you agree (or disagree) that the best place to have Puig to take advantage of all his positives (and hide his weaknesses) would be in a attacking mid/free role ala Riqulme in Villarreals 4312?

It's a position that has become obsolete in modern football, but on the other hand, hasn't really been tested with a modernised playing version of a playmaker. For example Riquelme (or later day Messi) never pressed from this position which Puig does/would.

It's the space that would benefit Demir more (mentioned in his thread) and possibly Pedri (though I like the idea of DMC for him as expressed before) who was naturally an offensive player before being repositioned here so we have alot of options for this interpretation. Hell, even Coutinho.

There's a reason its become almost obsolete in modern football, and that's because there are very few players good enough to play it in today's game, which is much more physical, quick, intense, give and go and more of a team game than the past. Sans generational players like Messi, few players are good enough to be given a free role and to disconnect from the team's structure. And you HAVE to be a top offensive player.

I get what you are saying with the pressing and Puig can be energetic but a lot of the time it isn't successful and destabilises the team when he goes out of position to do it. My question is would he be productive enough to justify being given a free role as a starter and everything says no. In such a role you absolutely have to be one of the leaders of the offense, and when Puig was played in this position in the B team, he barely scored or assisted at all and that was the third division.

He only has 3 professional goals. Making nice passes wouldn't cut it.

One of those players with a weird mix of attributes that don't cleanly fit into any role at a top division level.

 

[TRY_Aze]

 

[clemente]

Looks really good from highlights, not sure how we struggle to keep possession when we have players that look like they would be perfect for that. I think we are good at the start and then everyone gets tired, loses concentration, we are just not a 90 min team.

 

[Messi983]

Top 90 midfielder in the world.

 

[Messigician]

Xavi out

Setien in?

 

[mc_lovin]

We need to pick some of his followers on Instagram to coach us. He deserves a fair chance!

 

[Catta]

When you realize that Koeman gave him more chances than Xavi.

 

[ajnotkeith]

It must be like 5 managers in a row now that aren't trusting him. Either there is some massive conspiracy against Puig right from the top of football or simply, they see him every day in training and that he is not good enough,

 

[Messigician]

When you realize that Koeman gave him more chances than Xavi.

Tragic