BBZ Barca played 442 away to Roma with a fairly 'work horse' line up and it was worst game of season. It is not all about Barca 433 and midgets.
I have wrote on several other threads an answer about this.
We played 442 with 4 central midfielders earlier in the season, when Paulinho or Rakitic played as a RM.
They played on the right, but they are still central midfielders, NOT wingers and they move differently than Vidal/Dembele and they defend differently.
So, 442 with 4 TRUE Cms is different than what EV played later when he started to play 442 with Vidal or Dembele on the right.
We had only 3 true CMs then plus 1 winger.
In Roma's match, EV played 442 with Roberto as a winger who was hogging a touchline and it was a different formation from EV's classical 442.
Not to mention that against Roma we had to play with Semedo as a RB.
So, a double blow compared to EV's 442 from early in the season.
In my eyes: EV's 442 with 4 CMs > 442 with a winger > 433
We score more and our offense is FAR more fluid whenever Dembele's on. And he's averaging over a goal and assists per 90 minutes he has. How you fail to notice this is beyond me. Everyone clicks better and Dembele actively contributes to many chances created. But look who I'm talking to, the guy who actually managed to convince himself that "Dembele only scored 2 vs Villarreal because the league was over" even tho they were still fighting for European contention LMAO.
Gotta hand it to you man, you really are something else with these convictions
. The way you speak of Dembele, one wouldn't think that Barca actually averages 3.25 goals per game when he starts. If you want the math (which I'm sure you do), that is approximately a 23% increase in goals/game from our figure of 2.65 WITHOUT Dembele. Our offense is 23% more effective because of the presence of 1 rookie winger who's spent half the season injured.
Smh
I know that we are scoring more with 433 and with Dembele.
That is quite predictable.
On the other hand, check the stats how much we are conceding with 433 and/or in matches with Dembele.
With 442 with 4 Cms, we played 1:0 and 2:0 all the time.
Lately our matches turned into 5:1 or 1:5, more or less.
That's "the problem" with 433 lately and with too many attacking players: you will score way more, but you will concede way more.
That is good at home matches and against weak opponents away.
But any match in a CL will end as 0:3, and majority of La Liga away matches will turn into a horror show with 3:4 and 3:3 scores, just like in Lucho's last season with 433.
It's almost like people forget that Roberto was so uniquely bad at defense, and we as a team collapsed and were demolished ENTIRELY because of him, that Lucho had to change us to 3 at the back last season. The 4-0 loss to PSG and ensuing shift in our team was literally because of Roberto himself.
Depends how you look at it.
You think that Lucho changed 433 to 343 due to a bad Roberto.
In my eyes, Lucho changed 433 to 343 to get an extra midfielder since he realized that we suck in terms of balance and defending with 3 turtle midfielders lately.
With 343, we gained back some of balance in midfield and we weren't outplayed in midfield anymore as we were in 433 in away La Liga matches.
EV, imo, continued from there and he also realized that we are a horror show when we play a 3 men-turtle midfield in 2017 and 2018.
This is why EV turned to a 442 with 4 central midfielders.
But then, when we bought Cou and Dembele, the pressure was on him to go back to more attacking formations like 433.
And here you go, you have more goals and an absolute horror show in terms of midfield balance and in defending.
I'll copy part of my post from Ev's thread:
I am not saying that 442 is perfect, but obviously EV's 442 with workhorses worked better for EV than this new thing from the 2nd part of a season.
Look at the first part of a season:
2:0 Betis
2:0 Alaves
5:0 Espanyol
3:0 Juventus
2:1 Getafe
6:1 Eibar
3:0 Girona
1:0 Sporting
3:0 Las Palmas
1:1 Atletico
3:1 Olympiacos
2:0 Malaga
3:0 Murcia
2:0 Bilbao
0:0 Olympiacos
2:1 Sevilla
3:0 Leganes
0:0 Juventus
1:1 Valencia
5:0 Murcia
2:2 Celta
2:0 Sporting
2:0 Villareal
4:0 Deportivo
3:0 Real etc
In the first 45 matches of a season (AFTER Supercup matches), we had:
30 clean sheets (66% of matches)
13 times conceded 1 goal
2 times conceded 2 goals (Celta and Sociedad)
So, in the first 45 matches, we conceded only 17 goals
Then, in the last 11 matches, when we started to play both Messi, Coutinho, Luis, Dembele, Iniesta etc, or at least, we had Dembele and Coutinho compared to a 1st part of a season when we didn't have them:
11 matches:
1 clean sheet
4 times conceded 1 goal
4 times conceded 2 goals
1 time conceded 3 goals (Roma)
1 time conceded 5 goals (Levante)
So, in the first 45 matches, when:
1. Roberto was usually a RB
2. when we played 442 with Iniesta-Raki-Busi-Paulinho/Gomes. Or in the worst case: Vidal as a RM and Roberto as a RB in some matches. Ok, Vidal is a winger, but he is a way better defender than Dembele, for example.
3. when we didn't have Coutinho and Dembele:
= we conceded 17 goals in 45 matches
And had 30 clean sheets in 45 matches.
After moving to 433 or 442 with wingers Dembele/Coutinho instead of a CM playing as a RCM:
11 matches:
20 goals conceded in 11 matches, lol.
So, in the last 11 matches we conceded more goals than in the first 45 matches (20:17 goals).
Clean sheets: 30 out of 45 turning into 1 out of 11 matches.
** Just look at our conceded goals back then and a horror show from the last 10 matches.
So, yeah, Dembele and 433 brought more scored goals and way more conceded goals on the other hand.
Time will tell whether it was better to be sterile and win 1:0 and 2:0 or to have this new setup with 5:1 and 4:4 matches all the time.
This new setup is surely more entertaining.
But it remains to be seen how much points we will win with it over 38 matches in the next season, compared to EV's cautious 442 with 4 CMs from early in the season.
