Neymar - v2

[JimmyGuitarist]

The striker / false 9 issue starts in the midfield. Compared to other top teams (especially Juventus or Bayern), the Barca midfield poses relatively little direct goal threat. If we also sacrifice at least one winger for defensive duties and creating advantage in the midfield, then we're basically asking Messi to play two positions at once: the engache who provides the final pass AND the striker to convert final passes to him.

What made Pep's team succesful? At least two of the 2009 trio were trying to get on the end of the final passes in pretty much every attack, same thing 2010 and 2011. As teams began to compress the space between the defensive lines to move Messi further from their goal, Pep moved one of the wingers (usually Alexis) upfront to push the defenders a few meters back, thus re-opening the gaps for Messi.

How many goals have Barcelona scored this season? They have relatively little goal threat?

 

[LeoMessi10]

Most teams try to neutralize us by outmarking Messi, something that usually fails.

Bayern did the smartest thing I've seen in a while from opponents: mark/press everyone else so that Messi can't even get the ball. With that stroke of genius from Heynckes, they dominated our midfield. We couldn't make triangles for jack shit or string together any passes. Xavi wasn't creative enough to get the ball forward in any way, so we were stuck with passing it around the center circle passively. They were able to take us down because with the lack of any movement (which was extremely pathetic), our passing game was so goddamn slow and easy to neutralize. Ball possession is not the real Barca. Quick, unanticipated, fluid passing sequences in an unstoppable path towards the goal is the real Barca.

100% agree. I think sometimes we are too comfortable just holding the ball not doing shit with it and just passing horizontally or back until finally someone loses their mark. We need a little directness so they don't think they can just sit back and close our passing lanes and we won't do shit ( which is fairly accurate nowadays). I do think Neymar will help this because if the wingers actually have the skill and courage to take on their defenders they can't just play like bayern did who didn't even worry about offsides trapping or anything because we knew that we werent gonna get through if they just kept the ball in front of them and kept us super compact in the middle. Villa and Pedro looked far too stagnant to me, hardly ever were they stretching the field and making runs in behind to even give them a little trouble.

 

[Hamzah]

How many goals have Barcelona scored this season? They have relatively little goal threat?

Those were against the likes of Mallorca. We didn't score a single goal vs bayern

 

[Hamzah]

100% agree. I think sometimes we are too comfortable just holding the ball not doing shit with it and just passing horizontally or back until finally someone loses their mark. We need a little directness so they don't think they can just sit back and close our passing lanes and we won't do shit ( which is fairly accurate nowadays). I do think Neymar will help this because if the wingers actually have the skill and courage to take on their defenders they can't just play like bayern did who didn't even worry about offsides trapping or anything because we knew that we werent gonna get through if they just kept the ball in front of them and kept us super compact int he middle.

Or Xavi can try and take a risk once in a while i think the directness problem originates in midfield. Everyone hates on cesc but at least he's not Afraid to play a killer ball. Thiago is even better as he combines Xavi control of the game with a more direct style

 

[JimmyGuitarist]

Those were against the likes of Mallorca. We didn't score a single goal vs bayern

 

[LeoMessi10]

Or Xavi can try and take a risk once in a while i think the directness problem originates in midfield. Everyone hates on cesc but at least he's not Afraid to play a killer ball. Thiago is even better as he combines Xavi control of the game with a more direct style

Bingo. No one's better at keeping the ball than Xavi but occasionally I'd love to see a little ambition.

 

[DonAndres]

The system failed due to the players in it -

1. Messi was injured which makes a huge difference
2. Two attacking fullbacks - whereas it used to be one.
3. Wide players who cannot dribble, pass or change a game with individual actions
4. Center halfs not good enough

The Barcelona system worked at its best when there was one attacking full back, a leader at the back and three forwards that could all dribble, pass and posses a goal threat.

If the right players are in this system then it will still work.

Put whatever players you want, it's not gonna work if they don't move, press, or play quick passes like before. Tito needs to prioritize in fixing that with the entire team before spending money on Neymar. It's not that the players suck, it's that with time and success they've become more passive and lazy, lost the hunger.

That's pretty apparent in the front line as well.
-Messi's movement is invisible at times and he walks around too much without pressing
-Villa doesn't have the speed or energy to press and make runs constantly
-Pedro has become Alves's little bitch and only runs around to make up for defensive frailties yet goes invisible in attack
-Alexis tries hard and is improving, but it'll take some time to prove he's consistent
-Tello doesn't track back at all but he'd actually be great if he was given the chance and the entire team around him improved as well.
-Deulofeu needs to stop being lazy with his movement and pressing, he only tries hard when he's on the ball.

4 out of those 6 players have the ability to be the great player that we need (Messi already is great, just the walking around is a flaw), they just don't under this management or system. Fix the system, make them play the way we need them to, and they will perform. Buying Neymar after that is a luxury, he wouldn't do squat under this system either.

 

[LeoMessi10]

Put whatever players you want, it's not gonna work if they don't move, press, or play quick passes like before. Tito needs to prioritize in fixing that with the entire team before spending money on Neymar. It's not that the players suck, it's that with time and success they've become more passive and lazy, lost the hunger.

That's pretty apparent in the front line as well.
-Messi's movement is invisible at times and he walks around too much without pressing
-Villa doesn't have the speed or energy to press and make runs constantly
-Pedro has become Alves's little bitch and only runs around to make up for defensive frailties yet goes invisible in attack
-Alexis tries hard and is improving, but it'll take some time to prove he's consistent
-Tello doesn't track back at all but he'd actually be great if he was given the chance and the entire team around him improved as well.
-Deulofeu needs to stop being lazy with his movement and pressing, he only tries hard when he's on the ball.

4 out of those 6 players have the ability to be the great player that we need (Messi already is great, just the walking around is a flaw), they just don't under this management or system. Fix the system, make them play the way we need them to, and they will perform. Buying Neymar after that is a luxury, he wouldn't do squat under this system either.

The best thing about this post as that this can all be addressed by the coach. I think thats part of why there's no hunger. I imagine pep was all over them if they werent giving it their all and doing as they're told. I understand Tito has been sick( which is terrible) and I don't think we should ask him to step down or anything but I can't ignore the fact that if they were motivated by their trainer the way they were 2 years ago how different a team we are.

 

[Hamzah]

Waterlogged pitch didn't affect the opposition, no excuses. You act like football doesn't exist if it isn't played on a perfect pitch with tiki Taka. I think some bArca fans in general are guilty of this snobbery. There's many ways to play football and ou must respect it and adapt.

 

[JamDav1982]

Put whatever players you want, it's not gonna work if they don't move, press, or play quick passes like before. Tito needs to prioritize in fixing that with the entire team before spending money on Neymar. It's not that the players suck, it's that with time and success they've become more passive and lazy, lost the hunger.

That's pretty apparent in the front line as well.
-Messi's movement is invisible at times and he walks around too much without pressing
-Villa doesn't have the speed or energy to press and make runs constantly
-Pedro has become Alves's little bitch and only runs around to make up for defensive frailties yet goes invisible in attack
-Alexis tries hard and is improving, but it'll take some time to prove he's consistent
-Tello doesn't track back at all but he'd actually be great if he was given the chance and the entire team around him improved as well.
-Deulofeu needs to stop being lazy with his movement and pressing, he only tries hard when he's on the ball.

4 out of those 6 players have the ability to be the great player that we need (Messi already is great, just the walking around is a flaw), they just don't under this management or system. Fix the system, make them play the way we need them to, and they will perform. Buying Neymar after that is a luxury, he wouldn't do squat under this system either.

Messi walking around is not new, but it becomes more apparent when no one around him is doing to disrupt the opposition defence.

There are no attacking players at Barcelona that on their own can run directly and disrupt the opposition defence if they are left with space to attack. Neymar will help change that hugely.

What does Neymar need to do for you to consider him a good signing?

 

[JimmyGuitarist]

Waterlogged pitch didn't affect the opposition, no excuses. You act like football doesn't exist if it isn't played on a perfect pitch with tiki Taka. I think some bArca fans in general are guilty of this snobbery. There's many ways to play football and ou must respect it and adapt.

Barcelona aren't most teams who play in a universal style. They play there style of football as if it's their religion, & you want them to just change? You're no Barca fan if you want them to. In a game as important as that game, an opponent shouldn't knowingly use an un-footballing tactic to stop an opponent. They, in my opinion, knowingly waterlogged the middle third of the pitch, knowing that's probably Barcelona's most important third of the pitch, & pressed particularly more aggressively in that zone of the pitch more than any other third of the pitch. Bayern completely changed their way of playing, which is another reason I believe they did it on purpose.

 

[DonAndres]

Messi walking around is not new, but it becomes more apparent when no one around him is doing to disrupt the opposition defence.

There are no attacking players at Barcelona that on their own can run directly and disrupt the opposition defence if they are left with space to attack. Neymar will help change that hugely.

What does Neymar need to do for you to consider him a good signing?

Tello and Deulofeu are the type of players who can disrupt the opposition defense, Pedro can really be a havoc in attack in a different way.

For Neymar to be a good signing:
-Needs to get humble and unselfish. Can't demand high wages and he has to live with playing 2nd fiddle to Messi, it's not all about him.
-Needs to be a disciplined and motivated athlete, not a lazy partying idiot who spends all his time drinking, going to clubs, or messing with his haircut to look good for the media.
-Needs to cut out the diving as much as possible.
-Needs to learn how to operate without space and not over-rely on his tricks and skill moves
-Needs to get stronger and shield the ball instead of running blindly at defenders
-Needs to have a good goalscoring and assisting record.
-Needs to be consistently good, not just scoring hat tricks vs Mallorca but then disappearing or failing against teams like Real, Atletico, etc.

Overall I believe he'll be forced to change his playing style too much at too late a period in his development to ever be near the levels of Messi or Ronaldo. Might score 15 and assist 15 per season, which is alright, but not good enough to warrant his price tag or any of the hype. Just because he could be a good player doesn't mean he'll ever be worth all the time and effort into bring and integrating him into the team. Even if he isn't a total flop, it doesn't mean he'll be a good transfer.

 

[Hamzah]

Barcelona aren't most teams who play in a universal style. They play there style of football as if it's their religion, & you want them to just change? You're no Barca fan if you want them to. In a game as important as that game, an opponent shouldn't knowingly use an un-footballing tactic to stop an opponent. They, in my opinion, knowingly waterlogged the middle third of the pitch, knowing that's probably Barcelona's most important third of the pitch, & pressed particularly more aggressively in that zone of the pitch more than any other third of the pitch. Bayern completely changed their way of playing, which is another reason I believe they did it on purpose.

I never said bArca should change, but expect different play from opponents and be ready to deal with it. Also people take these small advantages al the time, even we do it with diving. Everyone does these small dirty tactics it's reality, can't bury your head in the sand. When your at home you se the pitch to suit you. Do you want us to make the pitch muddy if stoke came to suit them? No we make the pitch to suit us as we're the home team.

 

[Povikas]

I think he will be up for it. Cause he knows he's not the star of the team anymore if he comes. He has said he idolizes Messi. So he will learn.

 

[heaver]

hes playing today.. second game of the final of paulistao in like 40 minutes...
corinthians is the superior team tho, lets see what happens.