Internazionale
New member
Wait what...Eva Carneiro is 41?! 
Diego Costa is 26?! Something aint right here
Diego Costa is 26?! Something aint right here
BBZ8800
Senior Member
An interesting match.
Some players were horrible, some were average, some very good:
1st half:
Bartra:
-- wtf, seriously? I hope that more people will realize his pattern of plays. He is awesome against Levantes and again, he plays with so much heart and he usually wins all tackles (when a Levante's player is usually surrounded by 2-3 Barca's defenders)
-- against bigger teams (in all matches except against Psg at Nou Camp, he was more or less easily exposed during matches, numerous times)
-- that "thing" in his play, when he "rushes" in every single 1 vs 1 defensive tackle is so annoying. If he takes the ball, everything is fine, and he looks like a devoted lion. But when he doesn't take the ball, he looks like a rookie schoolboy playing against big boys who are making a fool out of him
-- yesterday, he had at least 5 dumb moments in 60 minutes:
1) fouling Hazard with his arms (pushing his neck) in the opening minutes, causing a free kick around the box
2) a panic clearance in our box at 0:0 when he almost kicked the ball into Mathieu, but luckily, he kicked the ball eventually into the stands (instead of kicking it into a counterattack)
3) then almost another Januzaj's moment when he was all over the place and totally lost his balance on Hazard's goal (I know, I know, he had Douglas and Gumbau around him, but still, he looked like a total rookie)
4) that failed pass when he gave the ball directly to Chelsea's players in our half, forcing Mathieu to make a foul around the box in order to prevent 2:0
5) a beginning of the 2nd half, when Hazard was making a monkey out of him near the corner line (a few times in the same action), because Bartra was again rushing like an idiot on him, even though it was so obvious what is going to happen
6) add to this when a few times he and Mathieu were too high in the attack, allowing at least 2 extremely dangerous counterattacks without offside
7) and a few times when I have seen him in the opponent's box, asking myself: Bartra, wtf again, WHY WHY WHY are you pushing so far up the field, and constantly opening spaces behind you for counterattacks and wtf are you doing too often in the opponent's box? We don't need you there.
-- some people are calling his style of play as brave, devoted and similar, but as the time goes by, I dislike Bartra more and more, and I am starting to wonder about his IQ also. Does he even understands what he is doing wrong in every f***ing match again and again?
-- he just runs all over the place like a headless chicken, and every smarter opponent (and their coach) can easily outplay him or wait for insane amounts of spaces which he leaves behind him at least 3-4 times in every half
Mathieu:
-- he was also poor
-- but I am not sure was he poor because he was surrounded by idiots like Douglas, Gumbau, Bartra and only one more or less normal guy, Adriano?
Douglas:
-- poor
Gumbau:
-- a Barca's player with the weakest level of off the ball movement when we have the ball (and when he doesn't have the ball) in Barca's history
-- plus, 8 out of 10 of his passes were passes to Mathieu :/
-- Masch's attacking contribution as a Dmc is a godlike compared to Gumbau, and I think that Masch is a horrible as a Dmc attacking wise
-- Sergi Roberto:
-- one of the positive things
-- this guy is turning into a new Gabri, our player from early 00's, who was able to play as left fullback, right fullback, central defender, defensive midfielder, central midfielder, every position
-- and Roberto was very good, at least defensively, and he even had some decent attacking contribution
-- Roberto is a Messi compared to Gumbau at defensive midfielder position
-- and it seems that Roberto is even better than Douglas (and probably even Montoya) as a right fullback
-- well done, Roberto, you are starting to be an extremely important versatile squad player
Busi:
-- very poor as a central midfielder, his movement is not too good
-- we had too many static midfielders with Gumbau and central midfielder Busi, plus Sandro on Busi's side, who also need to work more on off the ball movement, so too often, Mathieu needed to lead our actions or Bartra trying some Pirloesque long balls
Raki: ok
Suarez: awesome
Munir: he was trying, making a lot of mistakes. But he can improve and has good movement and fits well with the rest of the team
Sandro: an awesome goal and a few awesome shots. But in general, his first touch is sometimes extremely poor (not at Barca's level), and I would like to see more off the ball movement and contribution from him (if he would have Munir's movement and workrate and Sandro's raw shooting, well, that would be a beast of a player)
2nd half:
-- when Pique and Verm entered, a brainfarts from Bartra, Gumbau and other guys finally stopped
-- ok, Chelsea also played with weaker players, but more or less, they created 0 dangerous chances in the last 30 minutes
-- Verm much better today. He didn't do anything stupid.
-- looked like an Einstein and Beckenbauer compared to Bartra's rookie rushing at every single ball
-- Alba: good
-- Samper: I am slighty dissapointed. In the first match he was bossing the midfield, while yesterday, he was "just playing".
-- he didn't ask for the ball like in the first match, he wasn't available in our every action, he wasn't leading our every single action
-- maybe he was slightly impressed and scared against Chelsea :/
-- but still, he was good enough to earn a place in our team, and our defense wasn't shaky as with Gumbau
-- Rafinha: as someone said: we actually missed Rafinha, and a guy was our "brain" and by far the best midfielder
-- I often had the feeling: guys, just give the ball to Rafinha, he will create something
-- in the last season, I was so pissed whenever Rafinha played, and now it seems that he is our most creative midfielder in a trio Iniesta-Raki-Rafinha
-- a huge improvement from him, and also, he wasn't all over the place like in the last Season. He wasn't an attacking midfielder, but more like a midfielder
-- well done, Rafinha
Iniesta: ok
Pedro: he was awesome also
Halil: I am biased in a negative way towards him, so I won't comment too much.
-- but when he stepped up to take a penalty kick, I knew that he will have to do some stupid/spectacular trying to impress everyone (with Panenka), instead of trying a simple shot and scoring a simple goal
Masip: horrible mistakes, and he picked the wrong side at all 5 penalty kicks...
The best positive things from yesterday:
-- Suarez, Sergi Roberto as a RB, Vermaelen, Rafinha, Pedro
-- and somewhat Sandro and Samper
Some players were horrible, some were average, some very good:
1st half:
Bartra:
-- wtf, seriously? I hope that more people will realize his pattern of plays. He is awesome against Levantes and again, he plays with so much heart and he usually wins all tackles (when a Levante's player is usually surrounded by 2-3 Barca's defenders)
-- against bigger teams (in all matches except against Psg at Nou Camp, he was more or less easily exposed during matches, numerous times)
-- that "thing" in his play, when he "rushes" in every single 1 vs 1 defensive tackle is so annoying. If he takes the ball, everything is fine, and he looks like a devoted lion. But when he doesn't take the ball, he looks like a rookie schoolboy playing against big boys who are making a fool out of him
-- yesterday, he had at least 5 dumb moments in 60 minutes:
1) fouling Hazard with his arms (pushing his neck) in the opening minutes, causing a free kick around the box
2) a panic clearance in our box at 0:0 when he almost kicked the ball into Mathieu, but luckily, he kicked the ball eventually into the stands (instead of kicking it into a counterattack)
3) then almost another Januzaj's moment when he was all over the place and totally lost his balance on Hazard's goal (I know, I know, he had Douglas and Gumbau around him, but still, he looked like a total rookie)
4) that failed pass when he gave the ball directly to Chelsea's players in our half, forcing Mathieu to make a foul around the box in order to prevent 2:0
5) a beginning of the 2nd half, when Hazard was making a monkey out of him near the corner line (a few times in the same action), because Bartra was again rushing like an idiot on him, even though it was so obvious what is going to happen
6) add to this when a few times he and Mathieu were too high in the attack, allowing at least 2 extremely dangerous counterattacks without offside
7) and a few times when I have seen him in the opponent's box, asking myself: Bartra, wtf again, WHY WHY WHY are you pushing so far up the field, and constantly opening spaces behind you for counterattacks and wtf are you doing too often in the opponent's box? We don't need you there.
-- some people are calling his style of play as brave, devoted and similar, but as the time goes by, I dislike Bartra more and more, and I am starting to wonder about his IQ also. Does he even understands what he is doing wrong in every f***ing match again and again?
-- he just runs all over the place like a headless chicken, and every smarter opponent (and their coach) can easily outplay him or wait for insane amounts of spaces which he leaves behind him at least 3-4 times in every half
Mathieu:
-- he was also poor
-- but I am not sure was he poor because he was surrounded by idiots like Douglas, Gumbau, Bartra and only one more or less normal guy, Adriano?
Douglas:
-- poor
Gumbau:
-- a Barca's player with the weakest level of off the ball movement when we have the ball (and when he doesn't have the ball) in Barca's history
-- plus, 8 out of 10 of his passes were passes to Mathieu :/
-- Masch's attacking contribution as a Dmc is a godlike compared to Gumbau, and I think that Masch is a horrible as a Dmc attacking wise
-- Sergi Roberto:
-- one of the positive things
-- this guy is turning into a new Gabri, our player from early 00's, who was able to play as left fullback, right fullback, central defender, defensive midfielder, central midfielder, every position
-- and Roberto was very good, at least defensively, and he even had some decent attacking contribution
-- Roberto is a Messi compared to Gumbau at defensive midfielder position
-- and it seems that Roberto is even better than Douglas (and probably even Montoya) as a right fullback
-- well done, Roberto, you are starting to be an extremely important versatile squad player
Busi:
-- very poor as a central midfielder, his movement is not too good
-- we had too many static midfielders with Gumbau and central midfielder Busi, plus Sandro on Busi's side, who also need to work more on off the ball movement, so too often, Mathieu needed to lead our actions or Bartra trying some Pirloesque long balls
Raki: ok
Suarez: awesome
Munir: he was trying, making a lot of mistakes. But he can improve and has good movement and fits well with the rest of the team
Sandro: an awesome goal and a few awesome shots. But in general, his first touch is sometimes extremely poor (not at Barca's level), and I would like to see more off the ball movement and contribution from him (if he would have Munir's movement and workrate and Sandro's raw shooting, well, that would be a beast of a player)
2nd half:
-- when Pique and Verm entered, a brainfarts from Bartra, Gumbau and other guys finally stopped
-- ok, Chelsea also played with weaker players, but more or less, they created 0 dangerous chances in the last 30 minutes
-- Verm much better today. He didn't do anything stupid.
-- looked like an Einstein and Beckenbauer compared to Bartra's rookie rushing at every single ball
-- Alba: good
-- Samper: I am slighty dissapointed. In the first match he was bossing the midfield, while yesterday, he was "just playing".
-- he didn't ask for the ball like in the first match, he wasn't available in our every action, he wasn't leading our every single action
-- maybe he was slightly impressed and scared against Chelsea :/
-- but still, he was good enough to earn a place in our team, and our defense wasn't shaky as with Gumbau
-- Rafinha: as someone said: we actually missed Rafinha, and a guy was our "brain" and by far the best midfielder
-- I often had the feeling: guys, just give the ball to Rafinha, he will create something
-- in the last season, I was so pissed whenever Rafinha played, and now it seems that he is our most creative midfielder in a trio Iniesta-Raki-Rafinha
-- a huge improvement from him, and also, he wasn't all over the place like in the last Season. He wasn't an attacking midfielder, but more like a midfielder
-- well done, Rafinha
Iniesta: ok
Pedro: he was awesome also
Halil: I am biased in a negative way towards him, so I won't comment too much.
-- but when he stepped up to take a penalty kick, I knew that he will have to do some stupid/spectacular trying to impress everyone (with Panenka), instead of trying a simple shot and scoring a simple goal
Masip: horrible mistakes, and he picked the wrong side at all 5 penalty kicks...
The best positive things from yesterday:
-- Suarez, Sergi Roberto as a RB, Vermaelen, Rafinha, Pedro
-- and somewhat Sandro and Samper
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
I didn't like Rafinha too much, but now I am yelling at my Tv: bring on Rafinha, we need his magic, especially in these matches where we were lacking a magic from Messi and Neymar.
Iniesta and Rafinha were our two only creative players, and since Iniesta wasn't too interested in the first 2 matches, Rafinha turned into an MVP for Barca of this tournament, imo. (With Suarez)
Topolino
Gemusesuppe
Rafinha always had the potential to be a match decider, he just needed some time and hopefuly it's his time.
Bartra, I'm just lost for words.. needs Puyol to yell at him for a few hours.
And Gumbau was probably played because he wanted to see Barca fans go mental. Basically for s*its and giggles.
Bartra, I'm just lost for words.. needs Puyol to yell at him for a few hours.
And Gumbau was probably played because he wanted to see Barca fans go mental. Basically for s*its and giggles.
I watched until 75th min. and was happy.
Team bounced back after falling behind against full Chelski side.
Gumbau can be used only in Copa against Segunda division teams or when we are well in front.
Bartra was disappointing, again. And it makes me sad. Guy deserves a break for his dedication to the club.
Douglas was bad while he was on. Too bad about his injury.
Roberto is good. He's obviously not a RB but I have more confidence in him than Douglas.
Munir looked ok. He had too little space to work in.
Sandro scored a beauty with few Chelski defenders in fronta of him and against Curtois. No need to say more.
Older/established players I won't comment on. We all know what they can do.
Team bounced back after falling behind against full Chelski side.
Gumbau can be used only in Copa against Segunda division teams or when we are well in front.
Bartra was disappointing, again. And it makes me sad. Guy deserves a break for his dedication to the club.
Douglas was bad while he was on. Too bad about his injury.
Roberto is good. He's obviously not a RB but I have more confidence in him than Douglas.
Munir looked ok. He had too little space to work in.
Sandro scored a beauty with few Chelski defenders in fronta of him and against Curtois. No need to say more.
Older/established players I won't comment on. We all know what they can do.
Trickykid
New member
I don't get these kneejerk reactions to Rafinha's preseason. He started last season awkwardly when Lucho insisted on playing him wide, but he looked the real deal later on, and his huge talent has always been more than apparent. It's as if some people in here are so hellbent on not admitting to have been too harsh or even plain wrong, that is takes a summer break, where the player in question has suddenly magically matured, to change stance. Perhaps it's something as simple as Rafinha have been more involved because we're missing several key players, who usually steal the limelight, but I honestly don't think his play has changed as much from last season, as some of you guys try to make it look like.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Rafinha+Iniesta looked horrible in almost all matches when they played together last Season, probably 90% of users agreed on that.
Something was just wrong with those two on the field. We were just losing the balance then.
In these preseason games, they didn't look THAT wrong together anymore.
Maybe Rafinha also improved generally, matured and slightly improved his positional play which was very questionable during the last Season?
Alik
Moderator
Thing is Rafinha has been playing RW in this preseason, hasn't he?
The problem starts when he is asked to play CM.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
He was CM in the 2nd half of the first match, if I remember.
Plus, in the last 30 Minutes yesterday:
-- Alba, Verm, Pique, Roberto
-- Samper, Iniesta, Rafinha
-- Pedro, Sandro, Munir (Halil)
He was a Cm, and he wasn't a crazy Amc like last Season who was on the edge of the box all the time and leaving insane amounts of space behind him and causing a disbalance in our midfield (together when Iniesta alongside him).
F
Flavia
Guest
[tw]626388247116148736[/tw]
They're back home
Game against Fiorentina this Sunday, 21:00 (GMT +2).
They're back home
Game against Fiorentina this Sunday, 21:00 (GMT +2).
Trickykid
New member
Even if 90% was the actual number, I honestly couldn't care less. See, here's the thing; general consensus on this forum (and most other places) is more often than not derived from those few that yell the loudest and most persistant - not necessarily from the most knowledgable.
Anyhow, about those terrible Iniesta/Rafinha partnerships last season, I only recall a few, that were as bad, as you seem to believe. The home loss to Malaga, where the intire team was as bad as it gets, and an away leg against Villarreal in the Copa where, admittedly, especially the midfield with those two was completely overrun. Other than that, I doubt they started more than a handful of games together, of which I don't recall any being that bad. Admittedly, I may have forgot some, but I'm guessing you can help me out here?
For the sake of balance, I agree that the Iniesta/Rafinha constellation isn't optimal at all, with Rakitic obviously being the missing piece to the puzzle. Add to this the fact that Iniesta wasn't close to his stellar best for the most of the season, and it's not that odd, that there were bound to be off-days. This isn't solely Rafinha's fault, though, as he's just not that type of player, as I see it. Utilize him correctly (and continuously of course), and reap the rewards.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Imo, unless some of us are a total dummies regarding football knowledge, tactics, skills and similar, then the loudest can "win".
I have a few real life friends who are football coaches in some youth selections of local football clubs, but it doesn't mean that they are superior in judging Barca's players than most of us.
Some of those guys with "knowledge" really do know much than us, and some of them talks rubbish like most of us, also.
Some of them finished coaching schools.
While others are coaches only because they are former fullbacks in the local club who used to ran up and down the wing for 90 minutes, without using too much of an IQ. So, not all of them are Mourinho's actually, even though they are "coaches" and they are paid for that.
At the end of the day, sometimes even a regular football fan sees much more than the best coach in the world.
Pep, one the greatest coaches, actually bought Alexis. No words or logic can defend that move.
Or Lucho, a treble winning coach, currently with forcing Gumbau.
Again, I don't like that "divide", on knowledgeable and "regular" fans.
Even the most average fans can see that Messi is Messi, and that something doesn't work properly in some moments, like Gumbau, Bartra currently, Iniesta-Rafinha back then etc.
There are certainly some things which we, average fans, can't see.
But I wouldn't dismiss the opinion of majority that easily.
80-90% of average football fans usually can't be fooled that easily (if they share the same opinion about something).
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Bran the Greenseer
Active member
Its amazing how much Rafinha has stepped up, ik its pre season but that chelsea side was pretty stacked so to see him being involved and creating chances is great. Hopefully he can carry that over into actual game play.
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