El Gato
Villarato!
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Gotta be daft to dispute that Messi isn't captain material. Not for this game even since he hasn't played for nearly 3 weeks.
Quique Setién
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
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Gotta be daft to dispute that Messi isn't captain material. Not for this game even since he hasn't played for nearly 3 weeks.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
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Gotta be daft to dispute that Messi isn't captain material. Not for this game even since he hasn't played for nearly 3 weeks.
I'm more interested in hearing your explanation for why your natural leader ramos didn't rally the troops in those historic beatdowns. surely, more pride at stake in clasico than a betis v barca game.
El Gato
Villarato!
What even is your point here? Pretty sure you don't have one. Bar episodes of idiotic challenges Ramos is never faulted by anybody for lack of effort, always for lack of brains and focus. Exemplary leadership. Everyone would rather have a leader who doesn't give up and gets sent off than a leader who slumps his shoulders and walks. Neither was Ronaldo who was a leading figure upfront for that matter. Beatdowns? You literally care about this 15x more than madridistas do and it's reflected by the La Liga record in the past 20 odd years.
And now you're in a situation where Messi is your captain and whenever a game shapes up like this his thing of choice is to walk. Does it for Argentina, does it for Barca, both of whom think it's a good idea to give him the responsibility of picking up the whole team.
AND you expect Setien or another coach (whose only required quality needs to be 'better football') to change that.
El Gato
Villarato!
Only nowadays really. Wind the clock back 2 years.
El Gato
Villarato!
Yep supreme leader Ramos has been the reason why Madrid has been so successful for the past few seasons and this season.
We should buy a player like that. Players like Messi wont cut it here in barca.
Aye he was absolutely part of it. And you would use a player like that. Hence why you got Vidal.
No need to strawman ;]
FCBarca
Mike the Knife
Great example of the difference in tactics between Valverde & Setien with the latter being the more appropriate fit for Barcelona. Fewer resources yet outplayed Barcelona at Camp Nou for long stretches. The good, I hope, is that we are in the final stretch with Valverde at the helm - he was never the right choice for this club
Valverde looked as capable manager in Bilbao as well. No way of telling could Setien replicate anything at Barca.
henias
New member
Valverde's style in Bilbao doesnt even resemble any of Barca's one bit. At least Setien plays possession attacking football and most importantly he knows what he is doing. Tbh, I'm more and more convinced anyone could have done a better job at managing Barcelona right now because EV himself seems too clueless to even know how to use all 3 subs every week or resting players, let alone trying to play a good attacking system and develop attacking players. Hell, even our defence is in shambles for a supposedly "defensive manager"
FCBarca
Mike the Knife
All Valverde has looked capable of doing is playing the 4-4-2
Be careful looking at one result and wanting the manager.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/33939433
But what is very interesting is Busquets signing the jersey for Setien afterwards. I have never heard of an opposing player doing that for the opponents manager straight after an embarrassing defeat in my life. Very odd.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/33939433
But what is very interesting is Busquets signing the jersey for Setien afterwards. I have never heard of an opposing player doing that for the opponents manager straight after an embarrassing defeat in my life. Very odd.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Yep supreme leader Ramos has been the reason why Madrid has been so successful for the past few seasons and this season.
We should buy a player like that. Players like Messi wont cut it here in barca.
I don't get these double standards.
Messi is obviously an awesome footballer, but a horrible leader.
About KingLeo who posted our wins in El Classicos, someone could post Real's 4 CLs in 5 years.
It works both ways.
So, Ramos is a crap in La Liga and El Classicos and the best captain ever in CL's and CL finals.
It really work both ways.
About our (Barca's) wins in La liga, it is obviously that majority of them are won due to Messi and due to our possession based tactics in the last 10-15 years which is still the best tactics for playing against weaker teams for 12 Months (Getafe, Levante, Las Palmas etc).
If Barca wins against Getafe, we didn't win because Messi is a good captain.
We won because we are technically superior team.
When Barca wins against Real, it is because we are the only big team in the world who knows how to win against them.
When Real doesn't win La liga, that is not because of Ramos, but because we are better against smaller teams.
On the other hand, when Real wins a CL, that is partly due to Ramos and his leadership in key moments.
I mean, we can hate Real and wear Barca's glasses.
But nobody sane can't deny that CR7 was a crazy goalscoring machine (and look how RM is suffering now without him).
Or that Ramos is a way better leader than Messi.
Or, more or less: that anyone is a better leader than Messi.
Messi is our captain only because a board is doing everything to keep him and keep him happy.
Double standards again.
Yes, Betis have outplayed us yesterday.
But on the other hand, if Quique is THAT good, and if his tactics are THAT good for Barca, why has Betis won only 13 points in the first 11 matches of a season, before yesterday's match.
The only thing which we can conclude about Quique this season is:
1. his team has outplayed Barca
2. his team plays like a total shit in majority of other games, inspite of his "genius" tactics
I mean, even EV was 7th with Bilbao, and once when he left, Bilbao dropped from 63 points to 43 points.
That implies that he was a magician at Bilbao, who brought an average team to an Uefa cup level.
We can nitpick stats that way forever.
It is hard to conclude how good is someone based on his results with smaller teams, and especially based on 1-2 matches against big teams.
Stoichkov1
New member
Quique Setien in my opinion would be a terrible option. Instead of looking at the match against Barca and say that he's a genius because his team scored 4 goals against us you should look at the whole picture.
Quique Setien's teams concede an insane amount of goals, which means it would almost impossible to win the league title. Last year Betis conceded 60 fucking goals in 38 matches;
If you watched Betis this season you would notice how they often look clueless in the final third against a parked bus. They often pass the ball backwards and sideways for 90 minutes without any real penetration, just like Barca often does in away matches against relegation or mid-table teams.
The only thing that Quique Setien improves is the ability of his teams to play out from the back, but Barca don't need it at all since we have always played that way. We need a coach who improves our play in the final third and our off the ball movement, someone like Klopp or Guardiola, or a coach who brings defensive stability, someone like Allegri or Conte. Quique Setien doesn't offer either of those things.
Quique Setien's teams concede an insane amount of goals, which means it would almost impossible to win the league title. Last year Betis conceded 60 fucking goals in 38 matches;
If you watched Betis this season you would notice how they often look clueless in the final third against a parked bus. They often pass the ball backwards and sideways for 90 minutes without any real penetration, just like Barca often does in away matches against relegation or mid-table teams.
The only thing that Quique Setien improves is the ability of his teams to play out from the back, but Barca don't need it at all since we have always played that way. We need a coach who improves our play in the final third and our off the ball movement, someone like Klopp or Guardiola, or a coach who brings defensive stability, someone like Allegri or Conte. Quique Setien doesn't offer either of those things.
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