Quique Setien

[behindbrowneyes]

To be fair, when in possession Roberto basically played as the 3rd CB, and thus couldn't afford to get forward in that position. It was kind of a 3-5-2 with Alba playing LM and Fati RM, with Messi and Griezmann up front. Maybe someone like Firpo should/could that job better, as Setien already used him as the 3rd CB on occasion when they were in Betis together. Roberto is not solid enough in defense for this role, too prone to stupid mistakes, and one almost proved fatal tonight. Plus he can offer so much more in midfield, either as one of the CMs (game like tonight with no FDJ and Arthur the perfect game to use him there, so we don't have to play both Rakitic and Vidal) or a RM if we play like we did today.

The asymmetry was strongly reminiscent of 2011 Pep-Barça. Roberto doing the Abidal. Alba had the whole left flank like Alves had the right under Pep. Umtiti had the role of Piqué in 2011. Fati had to play right to do the Pedro and offer width on the right since Roberto had to stay at the back. Problem: no inverse wingers and therefore lack of goal-threats.
It made sense since Griezmann, Vidal and Messi are players who roam in the center of the pitch. I don't blame Setién for playing Fati on the right. It's clear that he is used to play on the left but someone has to provide width on the right until Dembélé is back. Only Fati and Perez can do that.

It will take time for Setién to find the right mixture and ridiculous to expect him making everything right (like Semedo would've been the better choice as RCB over Roberto, Perez more of a right winger than Fati). Let's not forget Suárez, Dembélé, FDJ and (Arthur) were not available. I also believe there is a chance of Coutinho playing the role he was bought for.

Fans will overanalyze the first games since everybody is curious. Let's not forget that his staff has to fix physical weakness, get to know the characters in the team, eliminate defensive issues and find the right mixture in the forward line with Griezmann and Messi being neither wingers nor a central forwards.

 

[BBZ8800]

Because the others don't post 5,000 word essays with biased statistics and prejudiced numbers to 'support' their point.

It's not just me who views you like this.

It's practically the entire forum at this point.

I'm objective about Setien. I want 85 points in Liga and good performances in away CL games. If he doesn't deliver those, we move onto another coach. What I know for sure is that the players put a greater effort yesterday than they did under EV for a long, long time.

Lol.
It's the "whole forum" when majority of fans have the same opinion about everything.

A few examples:
Pep=a God
Pep's style=still Godlike
If we play a copy or anything close to Pep's style=good
If we move away from it=bad
If we have players similar to those from Pep's style (Puig)=good
If we have players different to those from Pep's style (Raki, Paulinho)=cancers
If we don't play entertaining and beautiful=bad
If a coach is copying Pep=good
If a coach is moving in the other directions=bad, we have to go back to our roots, lol

It is quite simple.
Either Pep is coded in your blood or not.
And you are either blindly following Pep and everything regarding him about tactics, passes, type of players or not.

Majority of users from father Pep or not father Pep sides have similar views on majority of topics.
Pepistas hate Raki, Paulinho and co.
Other group don't hate them.
Pepistas hated EV till death.
Other group either supported him or at least didn't hated him as much.
Pepistas group will often mention: we want our Barca back and will be more often concerned about beautiful play compared to the other group.
Pepistas group is usually overly positive about young players and La Masia players in general.
While the other group is cautious or more negative.

Now, try to name any EV defender from this forum, and majority will have the same answers in all of these categories.

You are throwing harsh words.
Yet, how do you think that we rate your opinion (you, KingLeo in particular) or from the mob who all have exactly the same (and predictable) opinion in more or less everything?

I don't know have you noticed, but I stopped replying to you and similar users (except Serghei) because I can't decide whether your opinion is vanilla, or some sort of bot best-off compilation of popular opinions from a forum, or you just didn't dig deeper into football?

As a user ErnestoGoatValverde said, this forum is a perfect example of people not changing their views.
And then, 80-90% of posters here are guys who started to follow Barca during Pep and Pep and everything about him is deeply wired in their blood, brains and ideas about football.

And then, you are telling me thar guys who have Pep's football wired in their blood don't rate posts and ideas by some of us?

Newsflash: 90% of posters will still cry for Pep and his ideas in 2030, 2040 and 2050.
And probably won't change their footballing views for even 1%.

A mob will ALWAYS be on the side of everything which resembles of Pep.
Regardless of is it good for a club in 2020 or not.

 

[George_Costanza]

 

[KingLeo10]

Lol.
It's the "whole forum" when majority of fans have the same opinion about everything.

A few examples:
Pep=a God
Pep's style=still Godlike
If we play a copy or anything close to Pep's style=good
If we move away from it=bad
If we have players similar to those from Pep's style (Puig)=good
If we have players different to those from Pep's style (Raki, Paulinho)=cancers
If we don't play entertaining and beautiful=bad
If a coach is copying Pep=good
If a coach is moving in the other directions=bad, we have to go back to our roots, lol

It is quite simple.
Either Pep is coded in your blood or not.
And you are either blindly following Pep and everything regarding him about tactics, passes, type of players or not.

Majority of users from father Pep or not father Pep sides have similar views on majority of topics.
Pepistas hate Raki, Paulinho and co.
Other group don't hate them.
Pepistas hated EV till death.
Other group either supported him or at least didn't hated him as much.
Pepistas group will often mention: we want our Barca back and will be more often concerned about beautiful play compared to the other group.
Pepistas group is usually overly positive about young players and La Masia players in general.
While the other group is cautious or more negative.

Now, try to name any EV defender from this forum, and majority will have the same answers in all of these categories.

You are throwing harsh words.
Yet, how do you think that we rate your opinion (you, KingLeo in particular) or from the mob who all have exactly the same (and predictable) opinion in more or less everything?

I don't know have you noticed, but I stopped replying to you and similar users (except Serghei) because I can't decide whether your opinion is vanilla, or some sort of bot best-off compilation of popular opinions from a forum, or you just didn't dig deeper into football?

As a user ErnestoGoatValverde said, this forum is a perfect example of people not changing their views.
And then, 80-90% of posters here are guys who started to follow Barca during Pep and Pep and everything about him is deeply wired in their blood, brains and ideas about football.

And then, you are telling me thar guys who have Pep's football wired in their blood don't rate posts and ideas by some of us?

Newsflash: 90% of posters will still cry for Pep and his ideas in 2030, 2040 and 2050.
And probably won't change their footballing views for even 1%.

A mob will ALWAYS be on the side of everything which resembles of Pep.
Regardless of is it good for a club in 2020 or not.

Majority of the people have Cruyff ideals wired in their blood because that is the reason most of them support Barca. Has nothing to do with Pep. I started supporting during the Rijkaard era because we were both great and fun to watch.


There's plenty of other big clubs (RM, Bayern, Milan in the past, Pool now) to choose from if you want a different flavor (though I have my doubts the flavor you enjoy is losing given your support for workhorses like Juve and AM and Chelsea).

 

[Potroh]

How will Setien's style work? Well, I hope better than our last two humiliations with EV's style. Still, speculative stuff.

Well, I have had my fair share of trying to get behind the utter subjectivity and almost medieval darkness of this BBZ guy, so I lift my hat in front of you trying to say obvious and meaningful sentences.

A few remarks:
- EV has never had a "style", not even a hint of it, he was the textbook example of pure mediocrity, lack of imagination, etc.
- One could see that Setien is much braver and most importantly is much more FLEXIBLE, even after watching a single game.
- Granada was a weak opponent but the result could have been much more promising, specially that without Suarez Messi was more or less the sole attacker being useful.
- It seems to be obvious that Setien is aware of the low physical state of the team, hence the "passing" oriented game will improve a lot by better physical conditions of the players.
- The filtering by 4-5 midfielders used by QS gave quite a few opportunities for counters, which truly cries for a return of Dembele or anyone fast enough.
- QS realized that an 'in-line' defense is futile with slow center-backs, which was the best feature of his new approach to see.
- The position changes of the three attackers was also a nice thing to notice, even if it changed back to static after the red-card, but that is understandable.

I think folks should understand that a vital coach with imagination (even in his 60's) is the best solution for these players, even if Setien has little to show up as far as results go.
The known qualities of internationally acclaimed coaches would mean little in this mid-season change, they have their own styles and own agendas, whereas a flexible newcomer could be capable to invent things that match the players available at present.

 

[serghei]

Even since the first game with Setien, we have seen that the control and creativity is back where it should be. With the deep lying play-makers. Players like De Jong, Busi, Arthur, guys who can find the proper passes and find the best angles. Not with the fullbacks.

What I expected happened. The instant impact of Setien is much reduced time on the ball for fullbacks in dead end situations, and increased centrality through better positioning of the midfield 3, and better synchronizations, as well as better, more clever ways of finding the 3rd man and escaping pressing situations. Harder for opponents to cut off the passing channels in midfield, because now our midfielders readjust and make the other team work more to try to block central progression, which is damn hard to do. These are obvious things, which if you know the foundation of possession football and how it's supposed to work, at least at a basic level, you can see them being improved already.

Now the bad part. To play like that requires energy. Not insane energy, because better positioning means faster access on the ball by default, but more energy than we are currently able to put into a game. It is undeniable at this point that a main reason of the CL collapses in recent seasons has been down to the poor fitness and match preparation. This also plays in hand with the mentality part. Being prepared and fit, means being confident. Being confident means being mentally solid. But when you prepare poorly, and you're thrown in the deep end against teams who run more, press more, attack more, want more to win, that's where the panic mode sets in. It's a direct result of realizing you have no control, and in the end all you do is try to hang on and survive. That has been the story in the last 3 years.

We have a long way back and I hope the players are ready for what this means in terms of dedication and effort. This needs to be THE WAY forward. No two ways about it.

 

[mc_lovin]

[...]

This whole Cruyff vs pragmatic football topic gets quite boring. Can you get over it? There are more nuances to it. Theres nothing wrong with having an identity, and its probably one of the best parts about Barca, but we can still have pragmatic constraints within our philosophy. I have absolutely no problem with a real 9 or physical players if they are good enough. Like 99% of the forum. Its just tiring to have nutcase go against nutcase ;-)

Right now we are a team of highly technical players (Busquets, Messi, Arthur, Frenkie, Griezmann...), so I would take Setiens approach over Valverdes any day of the week. But that doesnt mean that I blindly follow him like you did with Valverde. There are valid criticisms, for example how he set up our attack. But at least we dont try to be a weak copy of Liverpool or are okay with mediocrity (Rakitic, Valverde..).

I have no idea why you try to force a black or white view on the forum. Its cancerous.

 

[Gnidrologist]

So much bs written from people, who obviously have zero pattern recognition ability as far as football tactics go, that it's too tiresome to wade through.
Instead of trying dissect any of that shit about the match, here's a couple of tubes that quite resonate with my overall feel of what Setien's about. The guy is a bitu too optimistic and over enthusiastic and kinda annoying speaker, but rises very good points about what was different and better last evening, even if at camp nou vs granada.
[youtube]vaPRPh59g0Q[/youtube]
[youtube]Ln-Y6e0Tfeo[/youtube]
Really excited and looking forward to our matches now. Feels good.

 

[serghei]

A win away at Valencia would be amazing. We have some tough away games coming up coupled with easier ones on Camp Nou.

 

[jairzinho]

A win away at Valencia would be amazing. We have some tough away games coming up coupled with easier ones on Camp Nou.

They're difficult to beat at home but it shouldn't be impossible. Mallorca put 4 past them on Sunday, they were pathetic tbh.

 

[behindbrowneyes]

They're difficult to beat at home but it shouldn't be impossible. Mallorca put 4 past them on Sunday, they were pathetic tbh.

Valencia away and at Mestalla are two different stories. Probably the hardest away game for Barça in La Liga.

 

[behindbrowneyes]

Now the bad part. To play like that requires energy. Not insane energy, because better positioning means faster access on the ball by default, but more energy than we are currently able to put into a game. It is undeniable at this point that a main reason of the CL collapses in recent seasons has been down to the poor fitness and match preparation. This also plays in hand with the mentality part. Being prepared and fit, means being confident. Being confident means being mentally solid. But when you prepare poorly, and you're thrown in the deep end against teams who run more, press more, attack more, want more to win, that's where the panic mode sets in. It's a direct result of realizing you have no control, and in the end all you do is try to hang on and survive. That has been the story in the last 3 years.

We have a long way back and I hope the players are ready for what this means in terms of dedication and effort. This needs to be THE WAY forward. No two ways about it.

ESPN: #
Prior to that session, Setien was formally presented to the squad in the dressing room, alongside his backroom staff and Bartomeu. Despite the expectation of a fairly simple exchange, sources explain Setien seized the chance to make a mark, saying, "If you have any doubts, tell me straight away, we have to attack any problems at the roots." He also explained his plans to increase the intensity of training in a bid to restore the "essence" of Barcelona, hard work that would help the club restore their high press and quick ball movement in transition.

The squad received the message well.

Sources say the first thing Setien requested from the players was "sacrifice." He scheduled a double session on his first day and brought them in again on Wednesday, cancelling a previously scheduled day off. One first-team player told ESPN the workouts have been "intense," more intense than those under Valverde, and the rondos -- effectively piggy in the middle -- have been "smaller, quicker and fiercer." Pique and Arturo Vidal were dead on their feet after 20 minutes of Tuesday's first session, with a more tactics-based lesson following in the afternoon.


source: https://global.espn.com/football/ba...ien-inside-the-changes-in-the-camp-nou-dugout

It was about time that someone kicks their asses out of their comfort zone and reminds them what they're paid for. Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

 

[Richard.H]

I think the bad thing about all this intense training is that our players are simply past it. For example, I'm sure a team like Liverpool can keep up their intensity throughout the whole season for 90 mins a game. Can you say the same about our players, regardless of how committed they are? It's physically impossible for 31-33 year olds to run as much as the younger teams in Europe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it but it'll require a major squad overhaul if we want to fight for the CL using pressing/one touch/tiki-taka. Domestically I think we should still be favorites for the league and cup.

 

[serghei]

Yea, but talk is one thing, doing it is another.

 

[serghei]

I think the bad thing about all this intense training is that our players are simply past it. For example, I'm sure a team like Liverpool can keep up their intensity throughout the whole season for 90 mins a game. Can you say the same about our players, regardless of how committed they are? It's physically impossible for 31-33 year olds to run as much as the younger teams in Europe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it but it'll require a major squad overhaul if we want to fight for the CL using pressing/one touch/tiki-taka. Domestically I think we should still be favorites for the league and cup.

Then that is what needs to be done. Massive overhaul. Put that record no1 revenue to good use for a change. There's only 2-3 positions in the first 11 that need a massive upgrade.