Van Persie

[danumber10]

Can you tell me the difference between premier league and la liga this year.Fact is there is none.City and utd. dominate epl while others are far far back same as in la liga with barca and real

We will judge at the end of the season. Right now I have seen some amazing games from both leagues. Let's look at the tables today.
EPL : 1)Man City 57 points
2)Man United 55 points
3)Totenham 50 points
4) Chelsea 43 points.

La Liga:1) Real Madrid 55 points
2) Barca 48 points
3) Valencia 37 points
4) Levante 32 points.

You can se the competition is more tight in the EPL. While in the EPL the second is 2 points behind the first , in La liga the second is 7 points behind the first. The third in the EPL is 5 points behind the second while the third in la liga ia 11 points behind the second.
So far EPL= more competitive. But we should only make the final judgment at the end of the season.

 

[evilhita666]

 

[danumber10]

Messi is a once in a generation talent. He stood out in a team of superstars as a teenager, was our best player in a poor season 07/08, and has been pivotal in propelling this team to its zenith, he does things with the ball that's synonymous only with Football's crème de la crème. Individually he'd be just as special in a lesser(functional) team even if he doesn't win as many titles. But neither DV7 or RVP, as good as they are, can be put in the same bracket as Leo. Proving one's worth in an average side don't always make you greater, but it's to the player's merits. One that will be used in favor when evaluating players of similar ilk.
And i didn't say the Valencia DV7 played for lacked quality, but there was growing instability within. And if you do want to attribute much of his success there to his quality teammates, then how about his time at Zara and Gijón. oh..but that would be unfair to Van Persie.




There are those who can, and there are those who do, and its the latter that 'll be remembered. And Villa has pulled the spectacular in the biggest of stages and games.
If you were to make a Top 10 compilation of Villa's career so far, you'll find his left footed curler vs sevilla and his arc vs madrid(supercup) in there. And that was whilst wearing the blaugrana. He has produced his magic at barca, just not frequently but more than enough for someone playing a supporting role.



You come across as a hardcore EPL fanboy who sees everything through EPL glasses. The top English defences have always found it difficult
containing messi (at 18 he ripped mou's well-drilled and organised chelsea defence), he was our best player at old trafford 07/08 having immediately returned from an injury break. The only way to stop him was to double/triple mark him which hiddick's chelsea later deployed effectively. Yet, he came up with an assist and unsettled their defense. He's always had the better of them(and this was against a prime terry, cole, carvalho, vidic, rio)..can u imagine what he'd do to the likes of evans, jones, luiz, cahill, kaboul, dawson..and it gets worse you as you go down. He was always a threat on the English soil, but its only now that he's statistically showing it, for 2 reasons - He has devoped further and improved as a player, and so has the team around him. Villa won't be much troubled disposing of EPL defences outside top 5, and make a mug out of the top tier every now and then.



That villa (valencia) won't be the same as the villa today, because he's now playing supporting cast, while at Los Che he was the primary goal-scorer. He has additional duties at Barca, which is essential to our team play and he performs them to the tee. Strikers tend to be hot and cold in front of goal, and their efficacy very much depends on form. I agree his finishing hasn't been consistent the past year, and has missed few crucial chances, but the same can be said about other forwards, do you want them all out too? And Villa missed loads of chances at Valencia as well, it's not a recent phenomenon. But he always delivered on the big occasion, and has for us for the most part. Lets not forget he's had injury woes since mid 2011, which has impeded his return to better form.
I could atleast understand if you were advocating a younger player as villa's replacement. But the rationale behind Van Persie is weak and unconvincing:

- He's only 1.6 yrs younger. If he came, the adaptation will take time. Don't you think he'll instantly fit in to our play because he's a great talent, technical, has the skills etc. Our system and style of play is different to that of arsenal, and any foreign player coming in will struggle initially and it doesn't matter how big of a star you're (villa being an exception - reason being he was accustomed to playing on the left( for his NT), and even as a CF he built his moves from the left channel, the other being his chemistry he previously shared with the catalan contingent). Our former arsenal signings took time to take off - Henry, and some never did - Hleb, and those who have - Cesc -'ve proved determintal to our game play. Van Persie's adaptation period means he loses the 1.6 years advantage he has over Villa.

- Post Cesc, RVP is now the focal point of Arsenal's attack, one main reason for his high numbers(which seem to be why people think he's on the up). RVP won't enjoy the same luxury at Barca, and the best player in the world won't be moved wide to accommodate a lesser player in RVP in the centre. Even if he is, he'll still be playing sec fiddle to Messi. Furthermore, Van Persie has not once in his career shown to be as effective or productive as Villa from a wide position. People think scoring 23(52) from wings is ordinary. It's not. And i doubt a 30/31 y.o RVP can emulate the same, forget improving on it.

-With Villa, you get reliability and a player who knows our system, and works in unison with the team. To break such an association to fit in a lesser player, but also injury-prone without significant age advantage isn't a very smart idea.

First you accuse Van Persie of not playing for Average teams like Villa and now you try to defend your point by saying that "Messi is special?" Come on lol, What you are actually proving is my point that there is no need to play for Average teams in order to be consider a good player. Messi's cause actually defends Van Persie b.c it proves that if you can't question a player like Messi who has only play for barca what arguemnts do you have to question Van Persie who has not played for the best team in England unlike Messi who has played for the beat team in spain and the world. So your argument against Van Persie not playing for average teams fails because then you would have to go against Messi which of course you won't. "Proving one's worth in an average side don't always make you greater, but it's to the player's merits. One that will be used in favor when evaluating players of similar ilk. " [/SIZE]are you contradicting yourself again? does it count whether you play in an average team or not? does it make you a better player or not? make up your mind. If you say yes, then Messi is not that great b.c he has only played in a top team. if not , then Van Persie is off the hook and your arguemnt for "Playing for average teams" fails. "And i didn't say the Valencia DV7 played for lacked quality, but there was growing instability within. " What do you mean by that? those Valencia teams were superb. Inestability inside the club has nothing to do with playing a game against other team. "And Villa has pulled the spectacular in the biggest of stages and games.
If you were to make a Top 10 compilation of Villa's career so far, you'll find his left footed curler vs sevilla and his arc vs madrid(supercup) in there. And that was whilst wearing the blaugrana. He has produced his magic at barca, just not frequently but more than enough for someone playing a supporting role. " Van Persie and many other strikes have scored quality goals as well....this is not only for Villa. Also we are arguing for or Against THIS VILLA IN BARCa and as you have additted yourself "he has produced his magic at barca just not frequently" and that's all that matters . His scoring numbers have actually gone down since he came to Barca. "You come across as a hardcore EPL fanboy who sees everything through EPL glasses.' ok? lol ... First of y all it seems like you come across as a La liga FANBOY . I love both leagues , I actually watch La liga more because of timing. But I'm trying to be objective here ." he ripped mou's well-drilled and organised chelsea defence" oh yeah? how many goals did he score? he had some good plays but Ronaldinho was our best player. "he was our best player at old trafford 07/08" goal please? My point is that it's easier to score against la liga teams and so far you are actually proving my point by telling me about games in which Messi "shined" yet he failed to score. so far so Good. " He was always a threat on the English soil, but its only now that he's statistically showing it, for 2 reasons - He has devoped further and improved as a player, and so has the team around him" how many goals in English soil please? So far you have helped me prove my point. thank you so much. "I agree his finishing hasn't been consistent the past year, and has missed few crucial chances, but the same can be said about other forwards, do you want them all out too? "I'm not saying he's gotta be perfect b.c I have even seen the most lethal player ever I have watched Ronaldo miss chances. The point is not only who misse's chances but who actually scores goals. Right now at thsi moment there is no doubt in anyone's mind that Van Persie is the better finisher and that's what we are arguing for. Van Persie's goal ration this season has been incredible. and Last season too , Van Persie had more goals than Villa ( If you want to use the argument for playing in a better or worse team Van Persie is not playing for Barca and he's still having better numbers than Villa ). Let's not forget that Barca usually create a lot of chances. "I could atleast understand if you were advocating a younger player as villa's replacement. But the rationale behind Van Persie is weak and unconvincing:" a younger player like who? Tell me the name of one player in the world right now capable of assuming such spot? And don't say Neymar b.c he's not even proven in Europe. Van Persie even though he's only a year younger than Villa is stronger faster and better overall. Better teachnique, better finishing. What other player could we bring to help us fight against Madrid next season? " If he came, the adaptation will take time. Don't you think he'll instantly fit in to our play because he's a great talent, technical, has the skills etc. Our system and style of play is different to that of arsenal, and any foreign player coming in will struggle initially and it doesn't matter how big of a star you're" Sure adaptation would take time... wouldn't it take time for that younger player of yours to adapt as well? I actually disagree. Arsenal's game is very similar to ours. It's not wonder Arsenal has been know as the Barcelona of England for a reason. "Van Persie's adaptation period means he loses the 1.6 years advantage he has over Villa. " Can you explain to me how that calculation works? We don't know that for sure. Cesc was doing great as soon as he came. he started getting lazy and getting fat ( something Van Persie is deff not known for. Even with all of that and not even playing in England that often last season , he has still managed to play a lot of games and not get injured. Adaptation will take time just like it would with any other player. "RVP is now the focal point of Arsenal's attack, one main reason for his high numbers(which seem to be why people think he's on the up)" BE CAREFUL b.c Now comes the Messi argument. In Barca everyone plays for Messi and therefore he can score more goals so should we take credit away from Messi just cause everyone plays for him? If you want to give him credit then give Van Persie Credit as well. "RVP won't enjoy the same luxury at Barca, and the best player in the world won't be moved wide to accommodate a lesser player in RVP in the centre." No one is saying that. Villa was never moved to the center b.c he can't play that position but Van Persie could. Van Perise coming to barca would be great b.c Now we would have another option in the middle. and we could move Messi to the wings when the center is toio crowded. Van Persie could play on the wings ( he might not have the same numbers but with Van persie on the team he would be the best player in attack after Messi. you see, I want Van Persie to come b.c all the responsability of goals is on Messi. We always expect Messi to score. If we had another player with amazing finishing then the responsability would not be all on Messi but Van Persie as well...giving Messi more space and giving defenders another reason to fear besides Messi. "People think scoring 23(52) from wings is ordinary. It's not. And i doubt a 30/31 y.o RVP can emulate the same, forget improving on it. "No one is saying that. Remember Villa is playing for barca ( this argument of the better team comes to hunt you ) I'd like to See villa score the goals Van Persie scores playing in the middle for a team not as good as barca loll You now what i'm trying to say. If according to you playing for an average team has more merit then Van Persie is doing great b.c he's not playing for the best team in the world . lastley "With Villa, you get reliability and a player who knows our system, and works in unison with the team. To break such an association to fit in a lesser player, but also injury-prone without significant age advantage isn't a very smart idea." I don't think getting to know our system can be that hard. Specially for a player (Van Persie) who has admitted many times that he only watches "Games of Arsenal and Barcelona." How many times have we played Arsenal in the last couple years? I'm sure Wenger has taught his players about the barca style. If Alexis fit into the system so well and so soon ( before injury) I don't see why Van Persie wouldn't . Plus he will have Cesc here who could help him out . finally , I want to say that I would love for him to come. I can't think of any other player at the moment who could come to Barca and actually help barca become a better team. To be Honest I don't think villa will leave b.c Pep likes him and he hsa said many times he is not for sale. I just wish we could have both players. I mean , look at madrid, they have Higuain and benzema for one position and one of them is always benched but it is this exactly that has make them greater team. They have more options and some really good bench players. Don't get me wrong you all, I love Villa. he's a humble person with a great heart and I would love for him to stay. to be Honest his last weeks before the injury he didn't look too happy. I felt really bad for him and I hope he can triumph again. I hope he recovers from injury and gets back in shape and help us win titles. I just wish we could have both players. My point has never been do take credit away from Villa . I'm actually trying to give some credit to Van Persie. We all know villa but I think it's unfair to say Van Persie is not good.

 

[evilhita666]

Robin, is that you?

 

[danumber10]

robin, is that you?

i wish

 

[UberNjufer]

We will judge at the end of the season. Right now I have seen some amazing games from both leagues. Let's look at the tables today.
EPL : 1)Man City 57 points
2)Man United 55 points
3)Totenham 50 points
4) Chelsea 43 points.

La Liga:1) Real Madrid 55 points
2) Barca 48 points
3) Valencia 37 points
4) Levante 32 points.

You can se the competition is more tight in the EPL. While in the EPL the second is 2 points behind the first , in La liga the second is 7 points behind the first. The third in the EPL is 5 points behind the second while the third in la liga ia 11 points behind the second.
So far EPL= more competitive. But we should only make the final judgment at the end of the season.

the difference is one club which is tottenham.It's one club but then you can also argue that top 2 spain clubs are stronger than english ones which explains the bigger point difference but it doesnt change the fact that chelsea,arsenal and even tottenham are out of tittle race same as Valencia in la liga thus making them both two horse leagues

 

[ammarfcb]

First you accuse Van Persie ....

because i love villa

 

[danumber10]

because i love villa

you should read it... I actually said some nice things about villa

 

[Maria]

We will judge at the end of the season. Right now I have seen some amazing games from both leagues. Let's look at the tables today.
EPL : 1)Man City 57 points
2)Man United 55 points
3)Totenham 50 points
4) Chelsea 43 points.

La Liga:1) Real Madrid 55 points
2) Barca 48 points
3) Valencia 37 points
4) Levante 32 points.

You can se the competition is more tight in the EPL. While in the EPL the second is 2 points behind the first , in La liga the second is 7 points behind the first. The third in the EPL is 5 points behind the second while the third in la liga ia 11 points behind the second.
So far EPL= more competitive. But we should only make the final judgment at the end of the season.

And now I go back to this:

The problem is that in the last 2 years at least Bundesliga and Serie A have been more competitive..not that he has taken into account what I wrote few posts ago..

Italy
1 Juventus 45
2 AC Milan 44
3 Udinese 41
4 Lazio 39

Germany
1 Borussia Dortmund 43
2 Bayern Munich 41
3 Schalke 04 41
4 Borussia M’gladbach 40

Why do you keep going with EPL>La Liga thing? In 2002 it was the other way around, in a few years maybe Bundesliga or Seria will be the best again..WHAT DOES THAT GOT TO DO WITH VILLA AND RVP?

 

[danumber10]

the difference is one club which is tottenham.It's one club but then you can also argue that top 2 spain clubs are stronger than english ones which explains the bigger point difference but it doesnt change the fact that chelsea,arsenal and even tottenham are out of tittle race same as Valencia in la liga thus making them both two horse leagues

Actually the difference are all teams. Just look at the table. The difference is not only totenham is all the teams in the table. In the EPL the fight for the title is more tight. While in EPL United is only 2 points behind City in spain barca is 7 points behind Madrid. While in Spain Valencia is 11 points behind barca in England totenham is only 5 points behind United. " but then you can also argue that top 2 spain clubs are stronger than english ones which explains the bigger point difference" That's the whole point of the argument. EPL is more competitive because the rest of the teams are not too weak compared to United and City while In Spain there rest of the teams are too weak for Madrid and barca therefore being a less competitive league. If Madrid and barca would not take almost all the money from TV rights I guarantee they would not be as strong and the other teams could afford better players and to even keep their stars making it a good competitive league. If that happened it would affect the performance of ( madrid and barca) in the European Competitions ( they would not own the show in Europe) but it will help the other teams from la liga perform better in Europe . ( of course that doesn't mean that it would always be like that because football is football and is very unpredictable. Maybe even without so much money from tv rights barca or madrid would still be powerful but we won't know for now.

 

[danumber10]

And now I go back to this:



Italy
1 Juventus 45
2 AC Milan 44
3 Udinese 41
4 Lazio 39

Germany
1 Borussia Dortmund 43
2 Bayern Munich 41
3 Schalke 04 41
4 Borussia M’gladbach 40

it looks beautiful that Italian league and German league. I don't watch German league, I do watch Italian league sometimes. I have talked to many people who believe Seria A and Budesliga are the most competitive in the world and they have reasons to believe so. Would you happen to have the standings from last season from both leagues? at least top 5. Just to see how the league ended up.

"Why do you keep going with EPL>La Liga thing? In 2002 it was the other way around, in a few years maybe Bundesliga or Seria will be the best again..WHAT DOES THAT GOT TO DO WITH VILLA AND RVP?" I don't remember ow it all started lol

 

[Yugi]

massive walls of text
so here it comes

 

[xaviniesta]

 

[Doobs]

 

[UberNjufer]

Actually the difference are all teams. Just look at the table. The difference is not only totenham is all the teams in the table. In the EPL the fight for the title is more tight. While in EPL United is only 2 points behind City in spain barca is 7 points behind Madrid. While in Spain Valencia is 11 points behind barca in England totenham is only 5 points behind United. " but then you can also argue that top 2 spain clubs are stronger than english ones which explains the bigger point difference" That's the whole point of the argument. EPL is more competitive because the rest of the teams are not too weak compared to United and City while In Spain there rest of the teams are too weak for Madrid and barca therefore being a less competitive league. If Madrid and barca would not take almost all the money from TV rights I guarantee they would not be as strong and the other teams could afford better players and to even keep their stars making it a good competitive league. If that happened it would affect the performance of ( madrid and barca) in the European Competitions ( they would not own the show in Europe) but it will help the other teams from la liga perform better in Europe . ( of course that doesn't mean that it would always be like that because football is football and is very unpredictable. Maybe even without so much money from tv rights barca or madrid would still be powerful but we won't know for now.

i'm with you on the tv rights BUT they would affect only madrid who bought their whole squad,12 out of their first 18 players are bought in the last 3years.On the other hand barca's squad is made of almost all their la masia products .Barca's signins were just response to madrid buying policy which we didnt even need,and we would dominate in same way we are dominating now.As for epl and la liga i'm gonna end the discussion as it is pointless,you stick to your story i'll stick with mine.