10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[Doobs]

I don't think we should get too worked up about what some randis think. The people that matter in the game today, know his worth.

You'll see that when he lifts his 4th(!) Ballon D'or in January.

 

[GiantKiller]

I don't think we should get too worked up about what some randis think. The people that matter in the game today, know his worth.

You'll see that when he lifts his 4th(!) Ballon D'or in January.

That first sentence. I see what you did there.

 

[La Furia]

Evra is racist against South Americans.

 

[FiReFTW]

Does anyone have statistics of how many games, goals and assists messsi has without xavi or iniesta or both xavi and iniesta in the past years?

 

[Doobs]

That first sentence. I see what you did there.

Does anyone have statistics of how many games, goals and assists messsi has without xavi or iniesta or both xavi and iniesta in the past years?

I know that Xaviesta have only assisted Messi in 10 of his 90 goals this season.

 

[FiReFTW]

I know that Xaviesta have only assisted Messi in 10 of his 90 goals this season.

Which brings me to the big question, why do some rare selected few people keep making idiots out of themselves, do they not watch barca and Messi AT ALL, EVER.. or do they simply do it out of anger that Messi is so much better, so they relieve their anger by attacking Messi and saying stupid things like that.

 

[GiantKiller]

Tbh, I wouldn't expect someone like Evra to look at such stats....

 

[Ursegor]

Pelé has received the same criticism for many years in regard to comparisons with Maradona. The argument was that Pelé always played in stacked teams alongside other all-time greats (which even won the World Cup without Pelé when Pelé was injured) whereas Maradona lifted not so great teams to greatness. Which has also led to arguments that actually Garrincha > Pelé in hindsight (which was definitely never the case) because Garrincha was a likeable person with bent legs and alcohol problems who died at a very early age who people could relate to whereas Pelé was "Mr. Perfect". So it's nothing new really. Messi resembles Pelé a lot actually. Much more than Maradona. On and off the pitch. Which is kinda funny seeing their portrayed relationship in the media.

 

[Theconomist]

Pelé has received the same criticism for many years in regard to comparisons with Maradona. The argument was that Pelé always played in stacked teams alongside other all-time greats (which even won the World Cup without Pelé when Pelé was injured) whereas Maradona lifted not so great teams to greatness. Which has also led to arguments that actually Garrincha > Pelé in hindsight (which was definitely never the case) because Garrincha was a likeable person with bent legs and alcohol problems who died at a very early age who people could relate to whereas Pelé was "Mr. Perfect". So it's nothing new really. Messi resembles Pelé a lot actually. Much more than Maradona. On and off the pitch. Which is kinda funny seeing their portrayed relationship in the media.

If this Argentina team wins the WC without Messi I will eat my underwear and post the video on youtube.

 

[Garrus]

What is so special about pele, Can some one please clarify?
He never left brazil, And his national team participation coincided with their best squad of all time, Hence the 3 world cups.
His total WC goals, were crossed by Muller, Ronaldo and klose.
I don't think he deserves the title of the best of all time, I think 4th place is good enough

 

[Kerrybai]

What is so special about pele, Can some one please clarify?
He never left brazil, And his national team participation coincided with their best squad of all time, Hence the 3 world cups.
His total WC goals, were crossed by Muller, Ronaldo and klose.
I don't think he deserves the title of the best of all time, I think 4th place is good enough

He scored a hat trick in the 1958 world cup at 17 years old. He also has a great record against European clubs, although mostly in friendlies.

ITALY
06-05-1959 2-3 2 Inter Milano
06-26-1959 7-1 4 Inter Milano
06-30-1959 4-2 - Genoa
06-01-1960 3-2 1 AS Roma
06-03-1960 0-3 – Fiorentina
06-18-1960 2-0 1 Juventus Torino
06-21-1961 5-0 2 AS Roma
06-24-1961 4-1 1 Inter Milano
06-15-1963 4-3 2 AS Roma
06-19-1963 0-2 – Inter Milano
06-22-1963 0-4 – AC Milan
06-26-1963 3-5 1 Juventus Torino
10-16-1963 2-4 2 AC Milan
11-14-1963 4-2 – AC Milan
09-05-1966 4-1 1 Inter Milano
06-17-1967 2-1 1 Mantua
06-20-1967 1-0 – Venice
06-24-1967 5-1 3 US Lecce
06-27-1967 1-1 – Fiorentina
06-29-1967 3-1 1 AS Roma
08-26-1967 0-1 – Inter Milano
06-09-1968 2-1 – Cagliari
06-12-1968 2-0 1 Alexandria
06-21-1968 4-2 1 SSC Napoli
06-26-1968 6-2 2 SSC Napoli
06-28-1968 5-2 2 SSC Napoli
06-24-1969 1-0 – Inter Milano
09-24-1969 7-1 2 Combination Geneva / Genoa
06-23-1971 2-1 1 Bologna
06-27-1971 1-1 - Bologna
06-30-1971 1-0 1 Bologna
03-03-1972 2-0 – AS Roma
03-05-1972 3-2 2 SSC Napoli
04-29-1972 1-0 – SSC Napoli
05-01-1972 3-2 2 Cagliari
06-25-1972 7-1 2 Catanzaro
05-25-1973 3-0 1 Lazio Roma
05-28-1973 4-2 2 Lazio Roma
29 wins, 2 draws, 7 defeats
110-55 goals
41 goals scored by Pelé
76 % won
37 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 3-1, 1 goal by Pelé

ENGLAND
10-22-1961 4-2 1 Sheffield Wednesday
09-22-1969 3-2 2 Stoke City
09-21-1970 2-2 2 West Ham United
02-02-1971 1-0 – FC Chelsea
02-21-1972 1-2 – Aston Villa
02-23-1972 2-0 - Sheffield Wednesday
06-04-1972 4-2 3 Newcastle United
06-13-1972 2-2 1 Coventry City
5 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat
19-12 goals
9 goals scored by Pelé
63 % won
47 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 2-1, 1 goal by Pelé

06-17-1959 3-5 1 Real Madrid
06-24-1959 4-4 1 FC Valencia
06-28-1959 5-1 2 FC Barcelona
07-05-1959 2-2 1 Betis Sevilla
06-19-1960 2-2 – Espanol Barcelona
06-25-1960 1-0 – FC Valencia
07-02-1960 3-4 1 FC Barcelona
06-12-1963 0-2 – FC Barcelona
08-28-1967 1-4 – Deportivo Espanol Malaga
08-29-1967 2-1 – Malaga
09-17-1969 3-1 – Atletico Madrid
08-31-1974 0-2 – Espanol Barcelona
09-01-1974 1-4 1 FC Elche
09-03-1974 3-2 2 Real Zaragoza
5 wins, 3 draws, 6 defeats
30-34 goals
9 goals scored by Pelé
36 % won
30 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 2-2, 1 goal by Pelé

WEST GERMANY
06-06-1959 6-4 1 Fortuna Düsseldorf
06-07-1959 3-3 – 1. FC Nuremberg
06-11-1959 6-0 1 Selection Hamburg
06-13-1959 7-1 3 Selection Lower-Saxony
05-27-1960 9-1 3 TSV 1860 Munich
06-01-1960 4-2 2 Eintracht
06-15-1960 4-2 1 Selection Berlin
06-03-1961 6-3 2 VfL Wolfsburg
06-26-1961 8-6 3 Karlsruher SC
10-20-1961 3-3 2 FC Hamburg
05-29-1963 3-2 1 Selection Lower-Saxony
06-02-1963 2-1 1 FC Schalke 04
06-05-1963 5-2 4 Eintracht
06-08-1963 3-1 1 VfB Stuttgart
06-13-1967 5-4 2 TSV 1860 Munich
06-17-1967 3-0 1 Selection Saarland
07-30-1971 3-1 – Hannover 96
02-27-1973 0-3 – Combination Bavaria
06-10-1973 5-0 1 Arminia Bielefeld
16 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat
85-39 goals
29 goals scored by Pelé
84 % won
34 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé
Average result: 4-2, 2 goals by Pelé

 

[Kerrybai]

What is so special about pele, Can some one please clarify?
He never left brazil, And his national team participation coincided with their best squad of all time, Hence the 3 world cups.
His total WC goals, were crossed by Muller, Ronaldo and klose.
I don't think he deserves the title of the best of all time, I think 4th place is good enough

1962 club world cup played over two legs.

Santos 3–2 Benfica Estádio do Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro
Pelé 31', 85'
Coutinho 64' Santana 58', 87'

Benfica 2–5 Santos Estádio da Luz, Lisbon
Eusébio 85'
Santana 89' Pelé 15', 25', 64' Coutinho 48' Pepe 77'

1963 club world, first leg.
16 October 1963
Milan 4–2 Santos San Siro, Milan
Trapattoni 3'
Amarildo 15', 67'
Mora 82' Pelé 55', 84' (pen.)cup

 

[Leo10]

Just listen to the first 2 minutes of this video, what Ferguson has to say...

 

[Ursegor]

If this Argentina team wins the WC without Messi I will eat my underwear and post the video on youtube.

Obviously the similarities between Pelé's and Messi's footballing environments only apply on club level.

Having said that. The current Argentina squad isn't as bad as people make them out to be. Higuain and Agüero are among the top 10 strikers in world football. Di Maria on form is the best winger in world football. Mascherano is one of the best ball winners in world football. Banega on his day is good as any central midfielder in the world not named Xavi or Iniesta. And while their back 4 isn't world class by any means, this can be compensated tactically by pressing and overall work rate of the whole team (as AURELIUS pointed out, it's not like the Netherlands back 4 in 2010 was anywhere near world class levels). And of course they have Messi. They are pretty damn good. They just need to keep on building a proper chemistry between each other.

 

[AURELIUS]

Obviously the similarities between Pelé's and Messi's footballing environments only apply on club level.

Having said that. The current Argentina squad isn't as bad as people make them out to be. Higuain and Agüero are among the top 10 strikers in world football. Di Maria on form is the best winger in world football. Mascherano is one of the best ball winners in world football. Banega on his day is good as any central midfielder in the world not named Xavi or Iniesta. And while their back 4 isn't world class by any means, this can be compensated tactically by pressing and overall work rate of the whole team (as AURELIUS pointed out, it's not like the Netherlands back 4 in 2010 was anywhere near world class levels). And of course they have Messi. They are pretty damn good. They just need to keep on building a proper chemistry between each other.

I agree with this and Sabella is a pretty smart cookie. The squad is happy and relaxed for the first time in many years. No dressing room rivalries as there were with Heinze and Riquelme about and bad apples like Tevez discarded. Messi is the leader with many of the same players he played with in 2005 and 2008 when he was the key figure in the sucesses of those years.

It is essential though come the summer of 2014 Leo is fit as his presence alone on the pitch is a psychological weapon that all great players have. Teams automatically alter their tactics to try and contain him and for the most part are scared stiff of him.

Regarding 1958 I think it is a shame Argentina did not send their proper squad to those finals because they would likely as not have had a great chance to win it. This is in view of the beating they handed out to Brazil in the Copa the previous year.

Leo doesn't need to prove anything to anyone anymore as this generations best player but nonetheless one will continue to encounter the misguided or the plainly envious. Style wise he is Garrincha's sucessor.