10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[raskolnikov]

Small? They are majority.
Players 33 %
Coaches 33 %
Journalists 33 %

And if it is like 2010 and 2011, almost all journalists, who can, vote but some of players and coaches don't. So, one player or coach vote weights more than a journalist vote.

Example: 10 players vote Messi, 15 coaches vote Iniesta, 150 journalists vote Cristiano and 1 journalist votes Messi. No other votes. Winner? Messi. 2nd: Iniesta and Cristiano. Those 10 votes are worth 151 journalist votes. (Actually it was 136, 136 and 154 in 2010)

But, comparing to earlier voting system: only 96 journalists voted (now over 150): every European country and every past World Cup final countries. They voted five names instead of three (points 5,4,3,2,1 vs 5,3,1 now).

In 2010, winner would have been Iniesta or Sneijder if it has been voted old style (only 94 journalists: Euro+WC). But however, no one can say how many 4th and 5th place votes there would have been and 2 of the countries did not vote, Faroe Island and Kuwait. So you actually can't compare the results.

2010, only 94/96 journalists voting 3 (not 5) best:
5,4,3 points:
Sneijder 258
Iniesta 226
Xavi 192
Messi 168
Forlan 155
All 2 and 1 points, and 10 points from Faroe Islands and Kuwait missing.

5,3,1 points for 1st,2nd,3rd:
Sneijder 196
Iniesta 187
Xavi 169
Messi 116
Forlan 100

What I meant was the percentage of captains/coaches that could vote for a nominee from their team/national team.
Thats relatively small so it wont affect the outcome as much that it would be better to not show who voted for who.
Sneijder/iniesta/Xavi would have been more logical than Leo, especially Xavi in 2010 imo, but in the end its the Messi era and it has been since late 2008.

 

[MMKa]

Ok, understood. However, secret vote is not good, because it is secret. Even now when everyone can see who voted who, some (I'm not mentioning Mourinho) are saying winner is selected by Fifa, it's arranged to Messi etc.

 

[jiopi]

Sneijder/iniesta/Xavi would have been more logical than Leo, especially Xavi in 2010 imo, but in the end its the Messi era and it has been since late 2008.

How would they be more logical, given that's it's an individual performance award? None of them won anything being the best player of the team. Milito was best player in both Serie-A and Champions League, Forlan was the best player of World Cup.

Messi won La Liga being the best player, scoring some wonder goals, top scorer in Europe, pwning Arsenal with style, best player in Argentinian national team and had the best individual season ever in Spanish club history 47+14.

 

[ricknattery]

Sneijder/iniesta/Xavi would have been more logical than Leo, especially Xavi in 2010 imo, but in the end its the Messi era and it has been since late 2008.

If you look at pure individual football talent Messi has been a deserved winner since 2009, he probably even deserved it in 2008
People need to understand the award is not about who wins more titles, it goes to the best player with best individual performances THROUGHOUT the year

 

[raskolnikov]

Then how do you justify Ronaldo winning it in 2002,Cannavaro in 2006 or even Nedved and Sheva.
Truth is usually always the key players of the most succesfull teams won.
Then again the talent gap was never this big.

It basically became an individual award when Messi won it in 2010.
By that logic Ronaldo should have won in 98 instead of Zidane, or 97 when Sammer won.

In 2010 Xavi was amazing for Barca and Spain. When the 3 nominees became clear everyone expected it to be either Iniesta or Xavi.
Messi deserves it this year cause he is so extremely far away from everyone and has the best individual year ever.

But for example had Pirlo bossed the euro Final and Juve had a good cl year he would have been chosen above Leo in other years.
Otherwise Henry or Dinho would have won it over Sheva for example in 2004.

 

[xaviniesta]

Guardiola “Don't try to write about him, Don't try to describe him. Watch him"

i got to admit that this is the best thing ever said in this thread. thank you

 

[jiopi]

Truth is usually always the key players of the most succesfull teams won.

But not always, these players won even without any major trophy

Matthews 1956
Denis Law 1964 Euro Year
Müller 1970 WC year
Keegan 1978 WC year
Platini 1983 (domestic cup)

It's the performance that matters, sometimes it's a player in the most successful teams, sometimes it's not. It's some kind of myth that, it has to be a player who won the most important team trophies. If that was the case, surely Mata or Torres would win this year easily.

 

[raskolnikov]

But not always, these players won even without any major trophy

Matthews 1956
Denis Law 1964 Euro Year
Müller 1970 WC year
Keegan 1978 WC year
Platini 1983 (domestic cup)

It's the performance that matters, sometimes it's a player in the most successful teams, sometimes it's not. It's some kind of myth that, it has to be a player who won the most important team trophies. If that was the case, surely Mata or Torres would win this year easily.

Its not always like that of course, but the majority of the time before 2010 it was the case.
But also, there are no clear criteria so there will almost always be a debate about it.
For me I look at everything, prices won, individual performances and how much they contributed to theor team and in the important games.

Spain has no clear star right now, not like Zidane in 2000 for example, tge whole team is strong. Chelsea won cl but has no star who lead them there (maybe Drogba but in the competition he didnt do much and its over the whole 2012 year so he is not an option)

When we look at individual performances Messi has the best year in history.
To beat him you need a strong individual year and team trophies, Ronaldo has no cl or Euro's so he has no case.

Maybe if there was someone performing like Messi and getting those numbers 10 years ago then the winners might not have come from the best teams.
I think we all agree though that since late 2008 till now Messi has been on top.

 

[Patty2720]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/enpd5

 

[messi_xavi_iniesta]

Then how do you justify Ronaldo winning it in 2002,Cannavaro in 2006 or even Nedved and Sheva.
Truth is usually always the key players of the most succesfull teams won.
Then again the talent gap was never this big.

It basically became an individual award when Messi won it in 2010.
By that logic Ronaldo should have won in 98 instead of Zidane, or 97 when Sammer won.

In 2010 Xavi was amazing for Barca and Spain. When the 3 nominees became clear everyone expected it to be either Iniesta or Xavi.
Messi deserves it this year cause he is so extremely far away from everyone and has the best individual year ever.

But for example had Pirlo bossed the euro Final and Juve had a good cl year he would have been chosen above Leo in other years.
Otherwise Henry or Dinho would have won it over Sheva for example in 2004.

None of those have raised the level so high since 2009 like Leo. It´s just a new level. Above. He´s brilliant in the majority of games. Goals and assists. Create dozens of chances. Out of this world.
I think he will win by 20-25% difference. Or even more.

 

[DonAndres]

From 31 yards away with a keeper in the goal.

orrrrrrr it can go classic Messi style. Dribble past 7 defenders and score to complete a hat trick against Bayern in the UCL final.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Looks like Messi could pretty much wrap up the Pichichi against Espanyol if Ronaldo fails to score in the 2nd half against Real Sociedad. Ronaldo has 5 yellows so he misses the next match.

 

[Leo10]

Looks like Messi could pretty much wrap up the Pichichi against Espanyol if Ronaldo fails to score in the 2nd half against Real Sociedad. Ronaldo has 5 yellows so he misses the next match.

 

[ThwiX]

Looks like Messi could pretty much wrap up the Pichichi against Espanyol if Ronaldo fails to score in the 2nd half against Real Sociedad. Ronaldo has 5 yellows so he misses the next match.

Well, that didn't happen, did it?

 

[xavisionary]

Ronaldo to win Pichichi now