10 - Lionel Messi - V6

[Mitchell1978]

So? The question is how to make the best out of Messi to our benefit. He is going to be 32 by the start of next season, why should we expect him to start every single game? We all know the best Messi is a rested Messi (and sometimes an angry Messi), so why not? Do we let him play every single minute in every game and risk injuries, fatigue and him becoming less effective? Do we risk totally relying on him for our attacking play until he retires and then we figure out how to play without him?

He should rest more (like in the CDR) but your suggestion is just dumb imo. Besides there are indications Messi is willing to rest more (already started 1 game from the bench and he's skipping the friendliess with Argentina).

 

[Raketa10]

Well, that is on the manager, and it's easier to move Semedo in at RB than move Messi somewhere else on the pitch. Although I'm not sure it would make a big difference considering the issues starts and ends with Valverde's incapability to find a way to counter teams like this, regardless of who is on the pitch.

You can play a 4-4-2 which would make us slower and shittier in attack.

Yeah it would but what is the alternative? Conceding 4 against Betis? We can try that 4-5-1 with Messi playing a free role but 4-3-3 is not an option anymore. Not without a new young Dani Alves.

 

[El Gato]

Why did we play like shit and barely scrap a win against a relegation team? Did the team not know how to play?

Because 4/5 players decide to walk in 60-80% games against any bottom 12 teams of La Liga? Ernie won't squeeze anything out of that lemon anymore. Nor will Setien. Exodus is needed.

 

[Luftstalag14]

My question to you folks is: We've had games like this without Messi too, like last game vs Rayo Vallecano where we definitely didn't deserve to win, and keep one thing in mind, Rayo are likely going to get relegated while Betis will get into EL places again.

What was your excuse against them? Messi's lack of pressing couldn't have been an issue since he didn't play. Nor did Rakitic and Roberto have to cover for Messi as again, he did not play.

Why did we play like shit and barely scrap a win against a relegation team? Did the team not know how to play?

Your arguments are simple minded when we played like this in our last game without the player that's supposedly causing our overall play issues and making our other players play like a bunch of pussies.

The only difference is that Real Betis' quality overshadowed Rayo's so they took their chances and managed to defend better which the latter couldn't.

I am not blaming Messi for this loss, not at all, but I am seeing the pattern of players overly relying on Messi when he is playing. Not that I am saying this should go away as it makes sense to reply on your best player but if every ball has to go through Messi it is certainly not efficient and most effective. Also I genuinely think it would be most effective if Messi gets rested (certainly not in important games such as el Clasico and CL games) and not start every single game.

Our overall game play has been bad for ages since Valverde took over. Today's loss is on Valverde and mostly the defense, not Messi.

 

[Kingkongkong]

I dont buy it when people say that our problem is that we are to dependent on Messi and play better without him. Ofc the players will look for him as he is the goat, but its not like we didnt score any goals tonight.
In my opinion this should be our XI:
Mats
Semedo-Pique(lenglet if he can play there)-Umtiti/lenglet(depending on form)- Alba
Vidal-Busquets-Arthur
Messi-suarez-Coutinho/malcolm/dembele

The problem tonight was in the midfield and in the defence.

 

[Luftstalag14]

He should rest more (like in the CDR) but your suggestion is just dumb imo. Besides there are indications Messi is willing to rest more (already started 1 game from the bench and he's skipping the friendliess with Argentina).

OK, perhaps not skipping the first halves entirely but yes, he should not start every single game, including some league games. And I am talking about next season and on.

 

[sickstar]

I think the problem wasn't the attack. We scored three.
The problem is whenever on the break, our positioning seem to be off. Joaquin goal? The passer, lo celso? I think had three option of players, all three were unmarked.

In that occasion, what I think was happening was that Betis break was at the right time with so many Betis players doing high pressing, so their position was in front. Our defenders had no option but to keep an eye on them. Later come players from their 2nd line and our forward/ middle did no backtracking. Result: a goal which could been joaquin's or two other free players besides him.

Besides that I also have a theory why the creativity is lacking while Messi plays. And it happened in Argie too

Messi is a perfect team player. He's not what one person here said, making other players lost their creativity. What happened is that everyone near him knows, with his high level of team play he always required players that has the same rythm, the same quality. With xavi gone, iniesta gone, fabregas gone, also alves, we only left with Suarez and Alba as the only ones who actually could receive Messi's intention. 5 keypasses today..could've been an assist. And I think, other players has a lil bit misunderstanding about him, with him as the creator, it doesn't need to be him as the finisher. But only the seniors that understand that. Messi realizes with his ages that he couldn't do all alone, from creating to scoring, so he altered his game play, but only few understand.

And Coutinho is clearly missed. As he's one of the few exception from the new players that actually know Messi's intention.

 

[Raketa10]

PROBLEM IS AN ABSOLUTE IMBALANCE ON OUR RIGHT SIDE WHEN WE ARE PLAYING 4-3-3! That simple!

 

[henias]

That's what you call a team with no structure, no system, no balance, no pace, poor man management, utltimately zero gameplan.

 

[DonAndres]

PROBLEM IS AN ABSOLUTE IMBALANCE ON OUR RIGHT SIDE WHEN WE ARE PLAYING 4-3-3! That simple!

Say it with me: Roberto, and Rakitic.

 

[raskolnikov]

I think the problem wasn't the attack. We scored three.
The problem is whenever on the break, our positioning seem to be off. Joaquin goal? The passer, lo celso? I think had three option of players, all three were unmarked.

In that occasion, what I think was happening was that Betis break was at the right time with so many Betis players doing high pressing, so their position was in front. Our defenders had no option but to keep an eye on them. Later come players from their 2nd line and our forward/ middle did no backtracking. Result: a goal which could been joaquin's or two other free players besides him.

Besides that I also have a theory why the creativity is lacking while Messi plays. And it happened in Argie too

Messi is a perfect team player. He's not what one person here said, making other players lost their creativity. What happened is that everyone near him knows, with his high level of team play he always required players that has the same rythm, the same quality. With xavi gone, iniesta gone, fabregas gone, also alves, we only left with Suarez and Alba as the only ones who actually could receive Messi's intention. 5 keypasses today..could've been an assist. And I think, other players has a lil bit misunderstanding about him, with him as the creator, it doesn't need to be him as the finisher. But only the seniors that understand that. Messi realizes with his ages that he couldn't do all alone, from creating to scoring, so he altered his game play, but only few understand.

And Coutinho is clearly missed. As he's one of the few exception from the new players that actually know Messi's intention.

Its true players dont always get him. Especially with Argentina so they dont make the runs or pass the ball back when needed. Another part is that Messi is simply way too good. He is 3 players in 1 and his superior skill intimidate players. So they pick the safe option and look for him, pass back when marked and so on. But having a quality trainer with an actual football system in play (something we have not had since Pep) would make a world of difference.
Problem isnt Messi though, he was one of the few that actually did well. Especially given the circumstances.

 

[Raketa10]

Say it with me: Roberto, and Rakitic.

I can say whatever you want but that won't change the fact that 4-3-3 is not a suitable formation for our current squad whether we like that or not. If we want to go back to 4-3-3 I would be delighted but for that we need a complete overhaul. This team is not capable of playing like that anymore and playing that system in order to please Barca fans is just WRONG.

I was the one who said Rakitic should be sold next summer because he will start to decline but the truth is that no midfielder in the world can cover that gap on the right flank nor should that be his main responsibility.

 

[Pedro]

I called it from the start that he shouldn't have started, nowhere near being fully fit yet, a penalty and tap in won't hide this fact. Let's hope he returns to full fitness for Athletico.

 

[messi15478]

The best player on the pitch by miles. Barca just doesnt deserve him.

 

[Vilarrubi]

I called it from the start that he shouldn't have started, nowhere near being fully fit yet, a penalty and tap in won't hide this fact. Let's hope he returns to full fitness for Athletico.

He will there’s international break now. Let’s hope he gets some nice rest in that time.