10 - Lionel Messi - V6

[Lucky Luciano]

Real Madrid had their way, FBs doing overlaps in wide areas, lots of crossing, Benzema's support role and so on. Ronaldo was a crucial aspect of the system. Now he's gone, they didn't have to change the system dramatically, but became much less effective (they can, of course, but it's not necessary like it will be for us) . Barca, on the other hand, is a team build around Messi (and Suarez to a lesser extent), a setup which aims to give them freedom. That's one reason why it's pointless to speculate about post-Messi Barca based on what we've got now. The other one: our core players will all leave by the time Messi hangs his boots. Rakitic, Pique, Busquets, Suarez, now Vidal... unlike Madrid, we'll have to build a completely new approach. Because replacing Messi 1 on 1 is impossible, and not just quality wise. Messi's role takes many sacrifices which no other player in the world can make up for. It's better to look at how Barca coped during Messi's absence. Better shape, clearer roles, more usual team that what we've got now.

In a post-Messi world, I imagine there will be more off-ball energy on the right hand side and greater defensive coverage down that side of the field. At the moment, due to Messi's obvious genial abilities, his defensive contribution is minimised in order to maximise his moments on the ball offensively. Messi is the only player who would be afford this kind of allowance.

 

[Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor]

Important match for Leo today. We can't have Ronaldo winning the Capocannoiere.

Current rankings
Quagliarella 23
Piatek 21
Zapata 21
Ronaldo 20

He's up against some real world beaters there. And playing on the best team by far as well. Still will be something Ronaldo fan boys will make seem like he has just climbed Mount Everest whilst on crutches and doing the Ronaldo celebratory twirl at the top.

 

[Pedro]

Leo's never scored at Anfield, let's hope that changes on Tuesday night

 

[Joan]

edit: since 2011, only saw it now

 

[brockg777]

Some Liverpool fans petitioning to get Leo banned for apparently punching Fabinho before the foul call that led to the free kick goal. After watching the full play back and in slow motion, to me, looks like Leo flung his arm up once he saw Fabinho was body blocking him off the ball. Does look like he tried to hit him, once he saw he was getting fouled, but doesn't look like a close fist. Possibly the foul call was wrong but it certainly doesn't warrant a ban, which won't happen anyway. Must say, though, that I don't like the aggressiveness, or Leo rolling trying to get Milner a card, then smiling into the camera. Can't stand the diving of Suarez, Busquets, and others though we don't do it anymore than others, but Messi has always been somewhat above that, never diving etc. I hope we see less of the gamesmanship because he doesn't need it to win. Barca doesn't.

 

[Ripsta]

Why hasn't this thread title been renamed 'God'?

 

[George_Costanza]

[tw]1124385657487409152[/tw]

 

[MessiTBE]

So it looks like the race for the European golden boot isn’t over yet.

Mbappe has been banned for 3 matches. Meaning he will play PSGs last 2 games. One is against Dijon at home, Dijon are terrible defensively. Could see mbappe scoring quite a few in that game alone.

Messi probably has maybe one La Liga game left? I think maybe Valverde Will rest him this weekend and then possibly for the final league game in preparation for cup final and CL final.

So maybe getafe at home his one game. Messi can get at least a couple goals there.

 

[Pedro]

Messi 18/19 - 48 goals
Ronaldo 18/19 - 28 goals

 

[CatalinR10]

Messi 18/19 - 48 goals
Ronaldo 18/19 - 28 goals

Let's hope Messi reaches 50 on tuesday.

 

[cro-man]

[tw]1124385657487409152[/tw]

 

[Arizona Scott]

Some of our best games this season was when Messi was injured. And that was Rafinha replacing him and Suarez being best attacker on the team at the age of 32 while not being in best shape.
I think we look much worse when he is on sidelines for some reason. But when he is injured we usually step up.

Yes. For one game, particularly when we are waiting for him possibly to come off the bench, we suck.

But when we have a run a games and when players like Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho have to step up, and I remember a big stretch a few years ago where you add neymar in there, they totally step up.

Barca w/o messi is still 5th in player value. When he is on the pitch players like Coutinho and Dembele sometimes have trouble figuring out what to do and i think Coutinho is particularly influenced because of where he is best operating and with freedom. Outside of Suarez the other forwards and wingers don't fully utilize him. But in truth Suarez has been a great striker with or without Messi--so underrated on this board.

Juv and Bayern are cruising every season to win their league titles, we struggled against mid-low table teams without Messi. Take Barca out, and ATM or Real will win the league. Someone posted a Liga table for last season without Messi's goals and assists contribution, it showed we end up at the bottom half of the table. What's interesting was they did the same with CR7 and Real lost only one spot at the top of the table. Saying we will look like Alaves without Messi is a compliment really since Alaves at #8 spot in Liga table.

You can't just take away his goals and assists, because also that would mean greater playing time and freedom to other players. Of course they could never replace it, but it wouldn't be zero. We also would be a better defensive team typically.

Messi is by far the best player in the world. I think he is worth 10-15 points with the next player half that. Take away Messi and I suspect we would be behind Atletico and in front of Real. We would probably be right with Atleti for the best defensive record but of course score way, way less than we do now. We would be closer to them than they are to us, and yes I think we could win Serie A if we are there. Our midfielders, possession play, and goalie are far superior to Juvs. I would suspect we would be at the Bayern/Dortmund level too--stack up our talent man for man with either of them.

Without Messi I think the only league race we would not have stayed a factor in is in the EPL, but I think we are better than their #3, Tottenham. My conjecture, no way to test it.

 

[Havesaks]

Yes. For one game, particularly when we are waiting for him possibly to come off the bench, we suck.

But when we have a run a games and when players like Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho have to step up, and I remember a big stretch a few years ago where you add neymar in there, they totally step up.

Barca w/o messi is still 5th in player value. When he is on the pitch players like Coutinho and Dembele sometimes have trouble figuring out what to do and i think Coutinho is particularly influenced because of where he is best operating and with freedom. Outside of Suarez the other forwards and wingers don't fully utilize him. But in truth Suarez has been a great striker with or without Messi--so underrated on this board.



You can't just take away his goals and assists, because also that would mean greater playing time and freedom to other players. Of course they could never replace it, but it wouldn't be zero. We also would be a better defensive team typically.

Messi is by far the best player in the world. I think he is worth 10-15 points with the next player half that. Take away Messi and I suspect we would be behind Atletico and in front of Real. We would probably be right with Atleti for the best defensive record but of course score way, way less than we do now. We would be closer to them than they are to us, and yes I think we could win Serie A if we are there. Our midfielders, possession play, and goalie are far superior to Juvs. I would suspect we would be at the Bayern/Dortmund level too--stack up our talent man for man with either of them.

Without Messi I think the only league race we would not have stayed a factor in is in the EPL, but I think we are better than their #3, Tottenham. My conjecture, no way to test it.

I totally agree on your thougts on that matter! Just wanted to add that messi for the players also works as insurrance, so it would take time - a season maybe - before players Are able to take responsebility and gain The trust to win without messi. To play over smaller periodes isnt representive in how The players would perform w.o. Messi a whole season. A perfect example og these mental issues we saw in 2014? when we played milan in chl and an injuried-messi got subbed in and barely did anything usefull but somehow all our other players went from shit to play with confidence and rather good.
That mental-messi-issue is also why we absolutly need messi to gradully step down, unlike how Perez handled Ronaldo. Ronaldo contributed with goals they are missing, but First of all the team lacks his sheer presence.
So yeah, mental-issues are also a big factor in without-messi-scenario.

j

 

[George_Costanza]

Yes. For one game, particularly when we are waiting for him possibly to come off the bench, we suck.

But when we have a run a games and when players like Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho have to step up, and I remember a big stretch a few years ago where you add neymar in there, they totally step up.

Barca w/o messi is still 5th in player value. When he is on the pitch players like Coutinho and Dembele sometimes have trouble figuring out what to do and i think Coutinho is particularly influenced because of where he is best operating and with freedom. Outside of Suarez the other forwards and wingers don't fully utilize him. But in truth Suarez has been a great striker with or without Messi--so underrated on this board.



You can't just take away his goals and assists, because also that would mean greater playing time and freedom to other players. Of course they could never replace it, but it wouldn't be zero. We also would be a better defensive team typically.

Messi is by far the best player in the world. I think he is worth 10-15 points with the next player half that. Take away Messi and I suspect we would be behind Atletico and in front of Real. We would probably be right with Atleti for the best defensive record but of course score way, way less than we do now. We would be closer to them than they are to us, and yes I think we could win Serie A if we are there. Our midfielders, possession play, and goalie are far superior to Juvs. I would suspect we would be at the Bayern/Dortmund level too--stack up our talent man for man with either of them.

Without Messi I think the only league race we would not have stayed a factor in is in the EPL, but I think we are better than their #3, Tottenham. My conjecture, no way to test it.

If we do struggle now against mid-lower table teams without Messi, can you imagine how many points we gonna lose playing week in and week out without him?

The figure was posted here and was compared to another figure for another Ballon d'Or winner Ronaldo. The figure showed we will end up at the bottom half of the table. Now someone like [MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION] will say we played some good football when Messi was injured. Might be true for few games like Real and ATM maybe? Can't remember but playing Real (with Messi or without him) will always be special for our players and give them extra motivation. Now can the team play the same level of football they played in Clasico or close to that level every week? No, and we all saw how we struggled especially when Messi isn't playing. Someone like [MENTION=22463]Joan[/MENTION] will say the team is built around Messi, that's why we depend on him. True, but Real was built around Ronaldo too, there are reasonable arguments to be made for a handful of world-class players of various positions that their teams built around them. But those teams relied on team cohesion and dynamics which are common factors in a successful team. Michael Jordan said, "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." And that's why we usually struggle in UCL because this team too dependent on individual talent(s) while lacking any cohesion and team chemistry.

 

[Arizona Scott]

Well george i dont say we would be great without messi--multiple trophy winning type squad, but believe we would be very very good. I think there are only 3 great teams this year. But we did shut out one of them, aside from messi dicing them like noone else could. We have actually given up very few goals in big matches this year (cl or matches with real or atleti)--our overall possession game and defense is outstanding, with or without Messi.