11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[Cule4life]

Both are equally bad, IMO. No sane staff or manager should have risked a player this soon.

Yeah i edited my comment to include Malcom. But again Valgreen never plays him. Dunno if throwing a rusty Malcom at such a desperate point was a good idea.

But the fact is that we were on the ropes. CL elimination is the one instance where you risk an injured player like we did with Messi vs PSG.

Now the sensible thing would be to play Malcom and give him time to get into his groove so that he can be ready to play in case Dembouz isnt back in time.

But since Malcom violated the bro code by sleeping with Malmierda's wife, that ain't gonna happen

 

[Leo_Messi]

People criticing valverde for the injury, the medical staff declare him fit so the coach uses him to kill off a difficult but tiring opponent. Not hard to understand

Eh, it was an open secret that Dembélé was not fully fit and that he would only be used if shit hit the fan. Apparently Valverde's understanding of "shit hitting the fan" was Lyon reducing after his cowardly tactical decision of sitting back and absorbing pressure against a mediocre Lyon team that barely created anything instead of going for the kill sooner. Hence the Dembélé substitution.

The same freaking Valverde (according to reports from the local press) was instructing the likes of Alba and Lenglet to keep asking Dembélé if he was ok and trying to convince him of getting subbed out once Messi scored his second as Dembélé apparently felt a bit of pain. Dembélé ignored it and continued playing. So he is a bit to blame for it as well but not surprising given his youth and the fact that a player always wants to play.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/ba...quiso-seguir-campo-pese-las-molestias-7353703

Sometimes you got to use common sense, in particular with a player like Dembélé who has suffered numerous muscle/tendon injuries in that exact same left leg and not risk a player when you have a Malcom at your disposition who could add many of the same things and who has an excellent statistic against the same Lyon team. The last time we used him he scored a goal against Inter in Milano just seconds after coming on and in a similar situation with barely any playing time beforehand.

Reports questioning whether our medical staff was negligent in their behavior. So not really a surprise that I and tons of other people are questioning the sanity of playing Dembélé this soon.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/ba...udo-haber-negligencia-lesion-demblele-7354845

It's not as black and white as you might believe.

The injury was also a recaída. Forget the English word for it. Recurrent injury, I think. So much for that.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/ba...da-rompio-exactamente-por-mismo-punto-7353360

 

[Havesaks]

Woow - so nice to see, how easy it is for people to blame valverde for everyhing that goes wrong. Its not the first time that dembele isnt listening to the signals his body gives him, he was criticized for that when he first got injuried (costing him 4 months on the side), and our staff ment that "its a shame, but he shall learn with age" - but apparently he hasnt. Messi also had a lot of muscle injuries in his early days, but with healthy food and being aware of the signals your body sends you, he learned to avoid injuries. Dembele seems to take his football more serious, but i wouldnt be suprised that he still eats junk, has bad sleeping habits and bad habits in general. I hope the club and maybe messi make him even more aware how much he can gain from living a more healthy life, because its not just about football, its all general joy, with healthy habits, you are a better version and more happy version of yourself.

So who is to blame? I mostly blame Dembele, Valverde cant really know if he should run it off or get subbed, and apparently he tried to make dembele think about it, and dembele chose wrong. Then again, valverede should maybe have subbed him off after the third goal, but like we saw in rome, things can change quickly and dembele provided an extreme important tactical dimension to secure us the win, so if dembele says he is fine, why should valverde put our advancement at risk.

 

[vlad]

Thats a blow and mistake from fitness coaches, im gonna defend valverde here, if he got green light from medical stuff, then he is in valverdes list for the match, he didnt put him from the start, he came as a sub, perfect thing to do with player who was recently injuried


I wonder, couldnt dembele sense something is still not right and inform the staff

 

[BigBarcaBoy]

Eh, it was an open secret that Dembélé was not fully fit and that he would only be used if shit hit the fan. Apparently Valverde's understanding of "shit hitting the fan" was Lyon reducing after his cowardly tactical decision of sitting back and absorbing pressure against a mediocre Lyon team that barely created anything instead of going for the kill sooner. Hence the Dembélé substitution.

The same freaking Valverde (according to reports from the local press) was instructing the likes of Alba and Lenglet to keep asking Dembélé if he was ok and trying to convince him of getting subbed out once Messi scored his second as Dembélé apparently felt a bit of pain. Dembélé ignored it and continued playing. So he is a bit to blame for it as well but not surprising given his youth and the fact that a player always wants to play.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/ba...quiso-seguir-campo-pese-las-molestias-7353703

Sometimes you got to use common sense, in particular with a player like Dembélé who has suffered numerous muscle/tendon injuries in that exact same left leg and not risk a player when you have a Malcom at your disposition who could add many of the same things and who has an excellent statistic against the same Lyon team. The last time we used him he scored a goal against Inter in Milano just seconds after coming on and in a similar situation with barely any playing time beforehand.

Reports questioning whether our medical staff was negligent in their behavior. So not really a surprise that I and tons of other people are questioning the sanity of playing Dembélé this soon.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/ba...udo-haber-negligencia-lesion-demblele-7354845

It's not as black and white as you might believe.

The injury was also a recaída. Forget the English word for it. Recurrent injury, I think. So much for that.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/ba...da-rompio-exactamente-por-mismo-punto-7353360

Can i point out this is the same mediocre lyon team who won awY and drew at home with man city

 

[Havesaks]

Can i point out this is the same mediocre lyon team who won awY and drew at home with man city

dont start making sense, its easier for some people just to have valverde as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Can i point out this is the same mediocre lyon team who won awY and drew at home with man city

Are we going to use 2 select games as examples of a team's (any for that matter) strength now? Is that the logic now?
Did you watch the two games against Lyon? Lyon created less danger than Villarreal did at the Camp Nou months ago who are now fighting to survive in La Liga. The same Lyon team that is ranked 27 on UEFA's list of best performing club sides in Europe.

Anyway you skipped every point that I wrote (legitimate that even local media are taking up for a reason) and instead objected to my correct statement of Lyon being a bang average team in those two legs.

dont start making sense, its easier for some people just to have valverde as a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong.

Nice one-liner. Too bad that it makes no sense as I am far from criticizing Valverde for everything let alone blaming him for everything. You must be thinking about other users here.

Lastly I wrote that it was the fault of the medical staff AND Valverde to risk him and even wrote that Dembélé is to blame as well. So not sure where this ridiculous "Valverde is to blame for all" claims are coming from. Certainly not from my part as everyone that can read English can figure out.

Valverde obviously had the final say so to totally absorb him of any blame is moronic. I know that you live Valverde but come on.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

It just continues to not make sense on why we are not utilizing Malcom. Sure, medical staff declared him fit but Valverde still made the conscious decision to risk Dembele over playing a fully fit and hungry Malcom. He knew this would be a possibility when he told him to warm up so you cannot absolve him just because the medical staff cleared him. Malcom should have played those minutes, plain and simple, and whats this about him sleeping with someones wife?!

The only silver lining I see in this currently is that at least Luis is looking a lot sharper over the last couple games. Him stepping up a bit could slightly mitigate the loss of Dembele but we simply need to use Malcom more this time around. He has shown that he can at least be counted on to not turn the ball over and potentially grab a goal with only 15-20 minutes on the pitch.

 

[Havesaks]

Are we going to use 2 select games as examples of a team's (any for that matter) strength now? Is that the logic now?
Did you watch the two games against Lyon? Lyon created less danger than Villarreal did at the Camp Nou months ago who are now fighting to survive in La Liga. The same Lyon team that is ranked 27 on UEFA's list of best performing club sides in Europe.

Anyway you skipped every point that I wrote (legitimate that even local media are taking up for a reason) and instead objected to my correct statement of Lyon being a bang average team in those two legs.



Nice one-liner. Too bad that it makes no sense as I am far from criticizing Valverde for everything let alone blaming him for everything. You must be thinking about other users here.

Lastly I wrote that it was the fault of the medical staff AND Valverde to risk him and even wrote that Dembélé is to blame as well. So not sure where this ridiculous "Valverde is to blame for all" claims are coming from. Certainly not from my part as everyone that can read English can figure out.

Valverde obviously had the final say so to totally absorb him of any blame is moronic. I know that you live Valverde but come on.

1 ) Dembele was cleared by the medics 2) dembele only played as a sub 3) dembele was asked several times if he shouldnt get subbed after 3-1, dembele was eager to play 4) subbing dembele was the right tactical decision, its not unthinkable lyon would have tied the game, they smelled blood after their goal 5 ) malcom wouldnt have provided half the tactical output dembele did 6 ) malcom is not in form. Just the top of the iceberg.

You do put most of the blame on valverde, and i just dont see how that makes sense. if he is at fault, its for not playing enough malcom to know if he could have made the same difference dembele did. But thats pretty much it. The reason we falled back on the pitch, is because our team is old and tired we can play like in the first half the whole game. Thats pretty obvious. Also Lyon was pressing harder in second half.

 

[Leo_Messi]

1 ) Dembele was cleared by the medics 2) dembele only played as a sub 3) dembele was asked several times if he shouldnt get subbed after 3-1, dembele was eager to play 4) subbing dembele was the right tactical decision, its not unthinkable lyon would have tied the game, they smelled blood after their goal 5 ) malcom wouldnt have provided half the tactical output dembele did 6 ) malcom is not in form. Just the top of the iceberg.

You do put most of the blame on valverde, and i just dont see how that makes sense. if he is at fault, its for not playing enough malcom to know if he could have made the same difference dembele did. But thats pretty much it. The reason we falled back on the pitch, is because our team is old and tired we can play like in the first half the whole game. Thats pretty obvious. Also Lyon was pressing harder in second half.

1) The medical staff is not infallable. There have been plenty of examples of them making misjudgementes. Every elite club has rushed players back too soon. Mostly at the insistence of the manager or player. The medical field is not an exact science for a reason too.
2) Does not matter if he only played 5 minutes (in theory) when clearly not fully ready hence re-injuring himself.
3) Exactly what I wrote and what I criticized Dembélé for. Must have missed that part of my post.
4) That is not a fact but your personal opinion. Malcom could have added much of the same. Runs, pace, threat from the outside.
5) They smelled blood because we started (for no reason) to sit back and defend while being too nonchalant and not scoring on our chances. Not because we did not have energy left. We played without using much energy for most parts of the first half especially as we scored those 2 goals rather quickly. Hence going all out blazing for the reminder of the game.
6) While Malcom was rusty it did not prevent him from scoring in the past, hence my Inter example. Dembélé was not fully ready either.

What are you blabbering about? "Most blame on Valverde" by equally blaming the medical staff and Dembélé himself? Is that your version of blaming everything on Valverde as claimed initially?

Valverde (the manager) having the final say at the end of the day on whether to use a player or not is also a factual statement. So once again, trying to absorb Valverde from all the blame makes zero sense.

BTW if it appears that I am overly critical it is because Dembélé is arguably our second most important offensive player and one of my favorite players so obviously I am a bit pissed off that he was risked and suffered a relapse that will take him out for 3-4 weeks in a crucial part of the season. A far cry of your caricature of "blaming Valverde for everything".

 

[Potroh]

I wonder, couldnt dembele sense something is still not right and inform the staff

I'm just telling you this as an experienced ex-player:
No, most probably he couldn't sense it, as most players do not. It's entirely different if a player "feels" to be fit after a training session or two, and what happens when he needs to provide his muscular-maximum in a sharp match-situation.

Many players do play with pain here and there (not severe pain but reminiscences of older injuries or recent blows), many of them get alleviative injections beforehand an important game, it's common, but the player himself rarely knows the nature of a particular present or former injury - if it might get worse, or getting induced again, etc.
In reality the players only know if they have pain or not, or if they have a refraining type of inflammation internally that forbids their usual movements. That's what the press names as "discomfort", but it's a very generic term.

Therefore I wouldn't blame the player himself, just as we didn't when Suarez or Pique played for months with injuries last season.

Usually I'm quite negative in relation to Valverde, but I wouldn't blame him either.
Neither I'd blame the medical staff, unless they did a thorough MRI before the game, and have seen the danger, because some injuries allow a player to play, even close to full-intensity but you never know if a similar problem appears at a different place on the same limb.

Nowadays the starters do a 30 minutes initial warming-up before the game, which is actually too much for SOME players, while it may not be enough for another type of players. Some muscular types need only 5 minutes, others much more.

One thing to remember: the starters get a regular massage before going to warmup, but the substitutes usually do not!

Thus a player coming in from the bench is an entirely different case, those can stretch some muscles but they have no ball at their feet, so once again a 5 minute warmup might be enough for some, whereas others would need much more...
I'd be curious to see the intensity and the time Dembele has actually warmed-up...

 

[Total-Football]

our own bale.

expensive check
huge salary check
pace check
divided opinion amongst fans check
always injured check
moody check

 

[BigBarcaBoy]

Are we going to use 2 select games as examples of a team's (any for that matter) strength now? Is that the logic now?
Did you watch the two games against Lyon? Lyon created less danger than Villarreal did at the Camp Nou months ago who are now fighting to survive in La Liga. The same Lyon team that is ranked 27 on UEFA's list of best performing club sides in Europe.

Anyway you skipped every point that I wrote (legitimate that even local media are taking up for a reason) and instead objected to my correct statement of Lyon being a bang average team in those two legs.



Nice one-liner. Too bad that it makes no sense as I am far from criticizing Valverde for everything let alone blaming him for everything. You must be thinking about other users here.

Lastly I wrote that it was the fault of the medical staff AND Valverde to risk him and even wrote that Dembélé is to blame as well. So not sure where this ridiculous "Valverde is to blame for all" claims are coming from. Certainly not from my part as everyone that can read English can figure out.

Valverde obviously had the final say so to totally absorb him of any blame is moronic. I know that you live Valverde but come on.

Thought about replying but seeing every post you do is like a novel i decided i wouldn't bother

 

[Leo_Messi]

Thought about replying but seeing every post you do is like a novel i decided i wouldn't bother

I don't think that anyone cares as nobody is interested in reading your one-liners nor expect you to make much sense if you attempted something else.

As a side comment, I can inform you that 2 users alone wrote longer posts in the previous page than my "extremely" long reply.

EDIT: Took a quick look at your posting history. Basically all of your posts are idiotic one-liners so not exactly a surprise. You are like a one-liner machine put on repeat.

Sorry if this reply is too long for you as well.

 

[Havesaks]

1) The medical staff is not infallable. There have been plenty of examples of them making misjudgementes. Every elite club has rushed players back too soon. Mostly at the insistence of the manager or player. The medical field is not an exact science for a reason too.
2) Does not matter if he only played 5 minutes (in theory) when clearly not fully ready hence re-injuring himself.
3) Exactly what I wrote and what I criticized Dembélé for. Must have missed that part of my post.
4) That is not a fact but your personal opinion. Malcom could have added much of the same. Runs, pace, threat from the outside.
5) They smelled blood because we started (for no reason) to sit back and defend while being too nonchalant and not scoring on our chances. Not because we did not have energy left. We played without using much energy for most parts of the first half especially as we scored those 2 goals rather quickly. Hence going all out blazing for the reminder of the game.
6) While Malcom was rusty it did not prevent him from scoring in the past, hence my Inter example. Dembélé was not fully ready either.

What are you blabbering about? "Most blame on Valverde" by equally blaming the medical staff and Dembélé himself? Is that your version of blaming everything on Valverde as claimed initially?

Valverde (the manager) having the final say at the end of the day on whether to use a player or not is also a factual statement. So once again, trying to absorb Valverde from all the blame makes zero sense.

BTW if it appears that I am overly critical it is because Dembélé is arguably our second most important offensive player and one of my favorite players so obviously I am a bit pissed off that he was risked and suffered a relapse that will take him out for 3-4 weeks in a crucial part of the season. A far cry of your caricature of "blaming Valverde for everything".

1) Exactly. We have seen it plenty of times, Even pep has suffered from misjudged medical clearences (we all remember his rage, screaming at them) ,there are no guarentees. But if a player is cleared, it means ceteris paribus that The manager can play the player. 2) And valverede only played him as a sub because he WAS cautios. 3) I did read it. 4) 6) And thats your opinion. We do know that dembele has played this role with High succes, and we do know that malcom has barely played and prob isnt in form. We also know that the gab in quality between those two is huge. We also know Malcom isnt as pacy or as good in the contra phase. We axtually dont know that much about this guy so its crazy to assume he could have provided anything at all in such a game. Malcom scoring a goal Vs means nothing. Also he played a different role.5) I do think that our oldies were tired and lyon manager said himself they put effort into playing closer to our goal, also scoring a goal from 2-0 to 2-1 normally gives The mental advaantage.

Blaming everything om Valverde was a general statement. I did just come from The "retardo"-thread, you did in fact put most of the blameon valverde. Imo took a caculated risk, and it did pay off in the sense that it secured our advancement, but it did more damage than good. But thats a far cry from "valverde is to blame". Its unlucky, thats the way i would put it. And we should in hindsigh maybe not have played him. But who knows what would have happened IF we didnt sub him, maybe Lyon would have scored, advanced and every valverde hater on this board (leta be honest at least 60-70%) would have blamed valverde for not risking dembele.