11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[Havesaks]

@Copypaste aka [MENTION=19517]Leo_Messi[/MENTION]

Okay, its like... we arent getting anywhere.

If you wanna blame Valverde for taking a risk with dembele, then fine. Just wanna point out, that i dont. And what Valverdes says in media, i couldnt care less, he took a risk - it backfired, but it also helped us advance at a difficult moment. And Malcom would maybe have done the job, maybe not - who knows, i myself dont think it would have gone so swiftly, and i would be open for taking a risk with dembele to secure us advancement (la liga, cdr already bagged). The thing i would have done differently was taking dembele out at 3-1.

 

[Riordon]

Look how angry and sad (and rightly so) are now Dembele is injured. A lot even says this lower our chances a lot in the CHL. And I agree.

Just shows how fucking important and quality Dembele is.

I would love another fast with huge amount of pace (dont consider Malcom that). We should go all out for Hudson Odoi. It would be sad to see him go to Bayern for cheap money. With Hudson Odoi and Dembele we IMO have two of the absolute best wingers in the future. But im afraid we won't go after same players as Bayern to keep relations good.

 

[LordLichtenstein]

None of us know how the game would have turned out, had Valverde not decided to play Dembélé.

We do however know that we won 5-1, so I don't think the critisisme is fair to be honest.
Dembélé will be back in 3-4 weeks (around april 3rd - april 10th) and he will likely play a big part in our tie against Manchester United.

 

[serghei]

None of us know how the game would have turned out, had Valverde not decided to play Dembélé.

We do however know that we won 5-1, so I don't think the critisisme is fair to be honest.
Dembélé will be back in 3-4 weeks (around april 3rd - april 10th) and he will likely play a big part in our tie against Manchester United.

You think it's normal that Valverde feels he has to risk injuring a key player so we can beat an average Lyon team at home? Lol. We should have beaten those guys on 2nd gear. Lyon are Europa League level.

You make it sound as if we were playing vs City or Liverpool. We were not.

 

[LordLichtenstein]

You think it's normal that Valverde feels he has to risk injuring a key player so we can beat an average Lyon team at home? Lol. We should have beaten those guys on 2nd gear. Lyon are Europa League level.

That say more about us, than Lyon. We were on the brink exit until the subs entered the field. I can understand his gamble - and whether you like it or not, his decisions paid of.

 

[serghei]

That say more about us, than Lyon. We were on the brink exit until the subs entered the field. I can understand his gamble - and whether you like it or not, his decisions paid of.

That was just a coincidence. Dembele had no involvement in the 3rd and 4th goals. His decision paid off because Dembele scored the 5th goal? Was a brain dead decision by a very scared manager. He probably remembered he inexplicably didn't use Dembele vs Roma and rushed to do it now, without thinking clearly.

Messi scored a solo goal after a recovery from Busi, and then Pique scored after a counter on the axis Alba - Messi - Pique. Dembele was barely in the photo for those goals.

 

[LordLichtenstein]

That was just a coincidence. Dembele had no involvement in the 3rd and 4th goals.

You're joking right? Yes, he didn't have any direct involvement in the 3rd and 4th goal. But Lyon had to account for his speed and dribbling, and psychologically that made an impact.

It is the same reasoning with having Messi on the pitch, the opponents know of his capabilities and tries to adjust as best as possible, leaving more room for other players.

 

[serghei]

You're joking right? Yes, he didn't have any direct involvement in the 3rd and 4th goal. But Lyon had to account for his speed and dribbling, and psychologically that made an impact.

It is the same reasoning with having Messi on the pitch, the opponents know of his capabilities and tries to adjust as best as possible.

Psychologically made an impact?

Lyon attacked because they needed an extra goal. We punished them on the break. This happened without Dembele having a notable contribution. Was more Messi than anything else. As soon as they let him more free, he punished Lyon. Dembele just scored the 5th goal and injured himself.

We could have scored 3-4 goals easily in the first half against a Lyon that was actually defending in a back 5. As soon as Lyon expanded to score they were going to concede on the break with or without Dembele. Dembele didn't even play in the first half, which was our best portion of the game.

He was not needed in that game but Valverde got cold feet and chickened out. Not that odd. He does that often.

 

[LordLichtenstein]

Psychologically made an impact?

Lyon attacked because they needed and extra goal. We punished them on the break. This happened without Dembele having a notable contribution. Was more Messi than anything else. As soon as they let him more free, he punished Lyon. Dembele just scored the 5th goal and injured himself.

Let me get this straight - you don't believe top teams adjust their tactics, positioning etc. to counter specific players? Players such as Messi, Dembélé etc. don't necessarily have to assist or score to make an impact, their presence on the field is an impact in and of itself.

 

[LordLichtenstein]

We could have scored 3-4 goals easily in the first half against a Lyon that was actually defending in a back 5. As soon as Lyon expanded to score they were going to concede on the break with or without Dembele. Dembele didn't even play in the first half, which was our best portion of the game.

He was not needed in that game but Valverde got cold feet and chickened out. Not that odd. He does that often.

Yeah, but we didn't did we..

The fact of the matter is, that we were on the brink of exiting the Champions League. Neither you or me know what would have happened had he not decided to gamble Dembélé. We do however know, that we won 5-1 and are now playing against United.

 

[serghei]

Yeah, but we didn't did we..

The fact of the matter is, that we were on the brink of exiting the Champions League. Neither you or me know what would have happened had he not decided to gamble Dembélé. We do however know, that we won 5-1 and are now playing against United.

Sure.

But the cause and effect relation isn't there. Unless you think that if we win tonight we win because Dembele is injured. These are two elements which coexist (us winning the match and Dembele being injured) without a cause and effect relation existing between them.

Same with us winning the Lyon game and Dembele being substituted in that game.

Let me get this straight - you don't believe top teams adjust their tactics, positioning etc. to counter specific players? Players such as Messi, Dembélé etc. don't necessarily have to assist or score to make an impact, their presence on the field is an impact in and of itself.

I do. Not what hapened in this case if you see the goals. Dembele is even well behind the action in both goals. Opponent doesn't even worry about him because he is not an active threat in neither of the plays except the 5th goal obviously.

The 3rd goal is a very clear situation of Messi dribbling past 3 players and scoring. Dembele doesn't help him at all. It's just a solo goal Messi scores no matter who is one the field with him. 4th goal is an action in which Dembele's position is basically irrelevant. He is not even marked at all because he doesn't influence the play.

 

[Centauri B]

Psychologically made an impact?

Lyon attacked because they needed an extra goal. We punished them on the break. This happened without Dembele having a notable contribution. Was more Messi than anything else. As soon as they let him more free, he punished Lyon. Dembele just scored the 5th goal and injured himself.

We could have scored 3-4 goals easily in the first half against a Lyon that was actually defending in a back 5. As soon as Lyon expanded to score they were going to concede on the break with or without Dembele. Dembele didn't even play in the first half, which was our best portion of the game.

He was not needed in that game but Valverde got cold feet and chickened out. Not that odd. He does that often.

Yes, we could have scored goals without Dembele stepping on the pitch and risking aggravating his injury, but that was not certain right after Lyon scored and needed only one goal to knock us out. At that time, the truth is that we panicked a bit.

I agree that Dembele should not have been brought on, but it's very easy to criticize post facto.

 

[Givenchy]

Dembele risk MAY of been worth it had we not had anyone else to come on.. if only we had a talented, young Brazillian winger..

 

[serghei]

Yes, we could have scored goals without Dembele stepping on the pitch and risking aggravating his injury, but that was not certain right after Lyon scored and needed only one goal to knock us out. At that time, the truth is that we panicked a bit.

I agree that Dembele should not have been brought on, but it's very easy to criticize post facto.

Yes, Valverde panicked. And this is not okay at home vs Lyon considering the huge difference in quality. That's the whole point.

 

[Centauri B]

Yes, Valverde panicked. And this is not okay at home vs Lyon. That's the whole point.

It was 2-1. Lyon only needed one goal, and we would be facing another humiliating CL fiasco. EV found himself in a very tough spot.

If Dembele recovers before the Man Utd games, no harm done. If not, then it will be a problem for us. There are no easy answers here. Maybe Malcom can deliver against United?