11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

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Bulgroz

Bulgroz

Senior Member
krakdol said:
Deschamps rates Dembélé since he made him start multiple games, including the first one at the World Cup. Now Giroud just has a different profile that matches pretty well with the rest of the team. But Dembélé is supposed to be the one who takes Giroud's spot in the years to come.

That, and Dembélé is still a bit shy in his game compared to Mbappé, nobody denies that. Mbappé is more mature and less likely to lose the ball. Which doesn't mean Dembélé has an inferior potential. He just has to be trusted and get as much game time in club as Mbappé.
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Totally agree. People who says that Deschamps thinks Giroud is better than Dembele just don't understand anything to Deschamps and/or France NT. But, I mean, coming from people who call a guy who managed to win a world cup both as a captain and a coach, nothing surprises me much.

Giroud is hardworking. He's style was needed, and we wouldn't have won without him. But in absolutely no way is he better than Dembele, and Deschamps definitely doesn't think so. Deschamps decided to create a group chemistry. He left out some talented players (Rabiot is better than Nzonzi, Benzema is better than Giroud) in order to have different styles of players, different ages, all of those united and focused on an amazing mentality. That's what he always does in his teams, and that's what he did with France. That's how he managed to bring France NT to 2 major tournament finals in 2 years.

Dembele is an amazing talent, but he's still too raw to be a starter in a team coached by Deschamps. It's not a matter of skill. Comparing him to Mbappe is pointless: Kylian is very talented, but he's also very mature in his choices on the pitch. That being said, he doesn't defend for shit. That's also why we needed the likes of Giroud and Matuidi along Mbappe. You also have to keep in mind that France lost their 2 wing back starters a couple months before the beginning of the tournament. That's half of our defense (not even including Koscielny's injury) that Deschamps needed to rebuild from pieces. Pavard and Hernandez came out of nowhere. Now, once you take that into account, playing 2 wingers who don't defend much would have been suicidal. Hence Matuidi on the left.

Dembele played his fair share of games for France before the world cup. He had some impressive ones, mind you. He'll be very important for us in the future. But he wasn't ready for that world cup, considering the whole context and the vision Deschamps had.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Bulgroz said:
Totally agree. People who says that Deschamps thinks Giroud is better than Dembele just don't understand anything to Deschamps and/or France NT. But, I mean, coming from people who call a guy who managed to win a world cup both as a captain and a coach, nothing surprises me much.

Giroud is hardworking. He's style was needed, and we wouldn't have won without him. But in absolutely no way is he better than Dembele, and Deschamps definitely doesn't think so. Deschamps decided to create a group chemistry. He left out some talented players (Rabiot is better than Nzonzi, Benzema is better than Giroud) in order to have different styles of players, different ages, all of those united and focused on an amazing mentality. That's what he always does in his teams, and that's what he did with France. That's how he managed to bring France NT to 2 major tournament finals in 2 years.

Dembele is an amazing talent, but he's still too raw to be a starter in a team coached by Deschamps. It's not a matter of skill. Comparing him to Mbappe is pointless: Kylian is very talented, but he's also very mature in his choices on the pitch. That being said, he doesn't defend for shit. That's also why we needed the likes of Giroud and Matuidi along Mbappe. You also have to keep in mind that France lost their 2 wing back starters a couple months before the beginning of the tournament. That's half of our defense (not even including Koscielny's injury) that Deschamps needed to rebuild from pieces. Pavard and Hernandez came out of nowhere. Now, once you take that into account, playing 2 wingers who don't defend much would have been suicidal. Hence Matuidi on the left.

Dembele played his fair share of games for France before the world cup. He had some impressive ones, mind you. He'll be very important for us in the future. But he wasn't ready for that world cup, considering the whole context and the vision Deschamps had.
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I know you are French and have probably watched Dembele play more than anyone else here, but give me one reason to trust your opinion over the one of people that say he won't make it here and that he's a fraud?

I don't trust you!
 
BarcaJack

BarcaJack

New member
I think Dechamps used Mbappe instead of Dembele just because he needed more defensive players on the pitch. France NT wasn't a great defensive team, they conceded goals now and then, but they already had enough fire power with Griezmann, Mbappe, Pogba etc. In that case, playing with both Mbappe and Dembele was a luxury and seemed ineffective in previous games, so it was quite reasonable to drop one slightly more inexperienced player in Dembele (who didn't play much last season & cannot offer more defensive contribution anyway) in favor of Mbappe who happened to be on fire.
 
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Bulgroz

Bulgroz

Senior Member
I'm not saying for sure he will make it here, mind you. He still needs to improve a lot. But even though many people here call is a lesser league, Ligue 1 has seen quite a few impressive talents rising up in the past years. The likes of Mbappe, Kante, Hazard or Umtiti started here, and I've seen them all start with Monaco, Caen, Lille and Lyon. Of course I'm not always right about these things, first of all because it's not my job, second of all because so many things can go right or wrong in a footballer's career that even the most talented sometimes end up playing in a very shitty league at 28.

Still, it's pretty safe to say that Dembele impressed me as much as Hazard, for example. He started for the first time with Rennes against my team, Bordeaux, and it was obvious he was well above everyone else. Honestly, over the past 10 years or so in Ligue 1, here are the young offensive players who made such an impression on me: Benzema, Hazard, Dembele, Mbappe, Aouar. Not all on the same level, but they all had something else than even the "good" young players. I really like Malcom and I think he can become a very impressive player. I had a very good feeling about him. But not as good as what I felt when I saw those players for the first time. Talking about another player often mentioned here: Martial seemed very good, but not as much as Dembele imho. And many people in France were in love with Ben Arfa when he started for Lyon, but I never really believed he could be huge.

As for what can make him a beast, I think everybody knows that. He's fast, he's an impressive dribbler, and people often mention his ability to shoot, pass and dribble with both feet without realizing how much of an impact it can have on a player's style. Especially when you love 1 on 1 like Dembele. How are you supposed to defend when you have absolutely no idea where your opponent is going to go ? It's already hard enough to defend against someone like Robben even when it's obvious he's gona move to the center and shoot, because he does it so well. But when it's against a player who can also do that very well, but might decide to just move to the wing and deliver a good cross, basically all you can do is pray.

One of the main thing that could go wrong is the fact that he's very immature. But he just turned 21 ! Even if he doesn't grow out of it, he'll still be a very good player (someone who can score 15 goals and deliver 15 assists every season, but who's definitely not worth 150 millions). If he does though, oh my... Go check Cristiano's stats when he was 18 to 21, and tell me that doesn't give you hope for Dembele. He became very impressive only in 2006-2007. Also, remember Neymar arrived in Barcelona at 21 too, and his first season wasn't that huge, stat-wise.

I think a lot of people's view here are biased by what Messi accomplished. Players carrying the best teams in the world at 21 are very rare, especially when it's their first season in that team (Leroy Sané was huge last year, but his first season in City wasn't as impressive, which is totally normal). Give him time. Few players in the world have as much potential as him.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Thank you for giving an informed, reasonable take on Dembele @Bulgroz :cheers:

Which is in contrast to those who have only watched him play a handful of times after he got injured last season and are giving all these hot takes around here.
 
T

Tekkers

New member
Bulgroz said:
I'm not saying for sure he will make it here, mind you. He still needs to improve a lot. But even though many people here call is a lesser league, Ligue 1 has seen quite a few impressive talents rising up in the past years. The likes of Mbappe, Kante, Hazard or Umtiti started here, and I've seen them all start with Monaco, Caen, Lille and Lyon. Of course I'm not always right about these things, first of all because it's not my job, second of all because so many things can go right or wrong in a footballer's career that even the most talented sometimes end up playing in a very shitty league at 28.

Still, it's pretty safe to say that Dembele impressed me as much as Hazard, for example. He started for the first time with Rennes against my team, Bordeaux, and it was obvious he was well above everyone else. Honestly, over the past 10 years or so in Ligue 1, here are the young offensive players who made such an impression on me: Benzema, Hazard, Dembele, Mbappe, Aouar. Not all on the same level, but they all had something else than even the "good" young players. I really like Malcom and I think he can become a very impressive player. I had a very good feeling about him. But not as good as what I felt when I saw those players for the first time. Talking about another player often mentioned here: Martial seemed very good, but not as much as Dembele imho. And many people in France were in love with Ben Arfa when he started for Lyon, but I never really believed he could be huge.

As for what can make him a beast, I think everybody knows that. He's fast, he's an impressive dribbler, and people often mention his ability to shoot, pass and dribble with both feet without realizing how much of an impact it can have on a player's style. Especially when you love 1 on 1 like Dembele. How are you supposed to defend when you have absolutely no idea where your opponent is going to go ? It's already hard enough to defend against someone like Robben even when it's obvious he's gona move to the center and shoot, because he does it so well. But when it's against a player who can also do that very well, but might decide to just move to the wing and deliver a good cross, basically all you can do is pray.

One of the main thing that could go wrong is the fact that he's very immature. But he just turned 21 ! Even if he doesn't grow out of it, he'll still be a very good player (someone who can score 15 goals and deliver 15 assists every season, but who's definitely not worth 150 millions). If he does though, oh my... Go check Cristiano's stats when he was 18 to 21, and tell me that doesn't give you hope for Dembele. He became very impressive only in 2006-2007. Also, remember Neymar arrived in Barcelona at 21 too, and his first season wasn't that huge, stat-wise.

I think a lot of people's view here are biased by what Messi accomplished. Players carrying the best teams in the world at 21 are very rare, especially when it's their first season in that team (Leroy Sané was huge last year, but his first season in City wasn't as impressive, which is totally normal). Give him time. Few players in the world have as much potential as him.
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:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:
 
wisconsincule

wisconsincule

Senior Member
Bulgroz said:
I'm not saying for sure he will make it here, mind you. He still needs to improve a lot. But even though many people here call is a lesser league, Ligue 1 has seen quite a few impressive talents rising up in the past years. The likes of Mbappe, Kante, Hazard or Umtiti started here, and I've seen them all start with Monaco, Caen, Lille and Lyon. Of course I'm not always right about these things, first of all because it's not my job, second of all because so many things can go right or wrong in a footballer's career that even the most talented sometimes end up playing in a very shitty league at 28.

Still, it's pretty safe to say that Dembele impressed me as much as Hazard, for example. He started for the first time with Rennes against my team, Bordeaux, and it was obvious he was well above everyone else. Honestly, over the past 10 years or so in Ligue 1, here are the young offensive players who made such an impression on me: Benzema, Hazard, Dembele, Mbappe, Aouar. Not all on the same level, but they all had something else than even the "good" young players. I really like Malcom and I think he can become a very impressive player. I had a very good feeling about him. But not as good as what I felt when I saw those players for the first time. Talking about another player often mentioned here: Martial seemed very good, but not as much as Dembele imho. And many people in France were in love with Ben Arfa when he started for Lyon, but I never really believed he could be huge.

As for what can make him a beast, I think everybody knows that. He's fast, he's an impressive dribbler, and people often mention his ability to shoot, pass and dribble with both feet without realizing how much of an impact it can have on a player's style. Especially when you love 1 on 1 like Dembele. How are you supposed to defend when you have absolutely no idea where your opponent is going to go ? It's already hard enough to defend against someone like Robben even when it's obvious he's gona move to the center and shoot, because he does it so well. But when it's against a player who can also do that very well, but might decide to just move to the wing and deliver a good cross, basically all you can do is pray.

One of the main thing that could go wrong is the fact that he's very immature. But he just turned 21 ! Even if he doesn't grow out of it, he'll still be a very good player (someone who can score 15 goals and deliver 15 assists every season, but who's definitely not worth 150 millions). If he does though, oh my... Go check Cristiano's stats when he was 18 to 21, and tell me that doesn't give you hope for Dembele. He became very impressive only in 2006-2007. Also, remember Neymar arrived in Barcelona at 21 too, and his first season wasn't that huge, stat-wise.

I think a lot of people's view here are biased by what Messi accomplished. Players carrying the best teams in the world at 21 are very rare, especially when it's their first season in that team (Leroy Sané was huge last year, but his first season in City wasn't as impressive, which is totally normal). Give him time. Few players in the world have as much potential as him.
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A++++++
 
Bulgroz

Bulgroz

Senior Member
Arizona Scott said:
Bulgroz, what do you think of Fekir and if/why Liverpool and Chelsea passed on him and should Barca have an interest?
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Fekir is a very good player, but I don't see where he would fit in barca's current team. His best position is as a trequartista, and you already have enough players who can fill in if you want to play with one. He's a bit like Malcom actually, same type of qualities, but he's bulkier, especially since his knee injury. Therefore is less suited as a winger, and better supporting another CF.

As I said, very good player overall, but very expensive (Lyon rarely sell their player for a bargain), and Barcelona don't really need him right now.
 
DonAndres

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Bulgroz is spot on. Dembele is very unpredictable for defenders. He was making killer plays on both the left and the right vs. Sevilla. The way he plays is also so fast and spontaneous with all the quick touches and ambitious transition attacks.

A lot is made out about how slow we tend to play, which is completely accurate. Dembele's presence always helps us open things up on the pitch, and he clearly links up well with both Messi and Coutinho. 3 extremely dynamic players who can all score/dribble/create chances with good chemistry is easily capable of great offense.
 
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