11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[ATLBarcaFan]

That 63 number cannot be right. I agree that he has work to do, but there is no way he is losing the ball 21 times a game. Thought he was better in the 1st half on Saturday outside of the goal in the 2nd.

 

[Bulgroz]

The numbers I posted come from a website that's usually pretty accurate. But keep in mind that any cross that doesn't arrive on a team mate is a lost ball, for example. Or any shot that's not on target. We're not just talking about disposessions. For example, against Valladollid, Dembele got disposessed 4 times, lost the ball twice on his first touch, and got 3 shots not on target. That's already 9 lost balls. Add 4 "missed" crosses (ie not touched by a team mate) and that's already 11 lost balls. The last 9 are probably missed passes. Once again, 20 lost balls for that type of player doesn't strike me as a huge number. Neymar lost 34 balls against Angers saturday (agreed, he also got the ball twice as much as Dembele against Valladollid but even if you divide that number by 2, it's still 17 lost balls). And 29 against Guingamp the previous week (on a 100). Griezmann lost 12 on 40 against Rayo Vallecano. Same type of numbers (though he's CF, so it's a bit different).

 

[Barcaman]

Thats a big number. And please don't compare to Messi if we aren't looking at everything else too.

Now... He's playing a bit more attacking role in hybrid 4-3-3 to last season's 4-4-2 (thus being allowed to make more risks) and he is playing on his weaker side so it's understandable he is losing more balls. Should drop as we move deeper into season

 

[Laplacian]

This is why I'm dumbfounded every time someone posts he's good at dribbling and passing lmao

Because he was statistically one of europe's best dribblers at Rennes and Dortmund? He dribbled at the same rate last season and ended at about 40~ successful dribbles, despite being out for more than half a season. He was one of the best chance creators in Germany and racked up 19 assists in all competitions. People rate his passing and dribbling because they've watched him play, and because data actually supports the claim.


So fucking dumb....

 

[Nothanks]

if the rumber is true i don't see how this isn't any different from ronaldo scoring from every 16 or something shots that everyone here loved to make fun of.

 

[henias]

The numbers I posted come from a website that's usually pretty accurate. But keep in mind that any cross that doesn't arrive on a team mate is a lost ball, for example. Or any shot that's not on target. We're not just talking about disposessions. For example, against Valladollid, Dembele got disposessed 4 times, lost the ball twice on his first touch, and got 3 shots not on target. That's already 9 lost balls. Add 4 "missed" crosses (ie not touched by a team mate) and that's already 11 lost balls. The last 9 are probably missed passes. Once again, 20 lost balls for that type of player doesn't strike me as a huge number. Neymar lost 34 balls against Angers saturday (agreed, he also got the ball twice as much as Dembele against Valladollid but even if you divide that number by 2, it's still 17 lost balls). And 29 against Guingamp the previous week (on a 100). Griezmann lost 12 on 40 against Rayo Vallecano. Same type of numbers (though he's CF, so it's a bit different).

Ah i see. But that sort of "lost balls" seems too vague and it could be due to alot of players positions whether they play alot of crosses or passes. It's best we break them up into crosses, passes, dribbles, dispossession, and measure them using success rate. If u clump them all together, surely it can get a pretty high number if u are a heavy attacker and worst u dont measure in succession rate.

This is the first time I've heard of lost balls. It's too ambiguous and it's better to look at more specific stats.

 

[Bulgroz]

I agree, obviously. That was the general meaning of my first post. It's silly to just point out that number, especially since it's not even such a high one, considering his position and his playstyle.

The fantasy league game I play (Mon Petit Gazon, they have a spanish league too, don't know if people here use it but it's much better than most fantasy leagues I've ever played imho) rate players according to a pretty big number of stats, and weighs those stats depending on the player's position on the pitch. A lost ball for an offensive player might mean -0.1 point, while it would mean -0.3 for a midfielder for example (those are not the real numbers, I'm too lazy to look them up). Even with this system (it's not perfect, but no automatic ranking system is), you get once in a while a player who looked superb because he created quite a few opportunities, or managed to dribble his defender superbly a couple times, but lost the ball a bit too often. Stats can't tell everything, especially when you have a hight risk/high reward playstyle like Dembele. That being said, Dembouz still got the best grade against Valladolid (6/10), after Mats (6.5/10), on their ranking system.

 

[te amo barca]

if the rumber is true i don't see how this isn't any different from ronaldo scoring from every 16 or something shots that everyone here loved to make fun of.

Attacking players always have such high percentages of lost balls, especially those who create & dribble. It it just that risky.

 

[xXKonan]

I mean Neymar lost possession of the ball 46 times in one match vs Juventus during the 0-0 draw.

Hell he lost it 40 times vs Gladbach as well earlier in that season. And everyone knows of his talent as well. Dembele loses ball a lot but said can be said for a number of forwards, it would be bad if one of our Midfielders did that.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I mean Neymar lost possession of the ball 46 times in one match vs Juventus during the 0-0 draw.

Hell he lost it 40 times vs Gladbach as well earlier in that season. And everyone knows of his talent as well. Dembele loses ball a lot but said can be said for a number of forwards, it would be bad if one of our Midfielders did that.

Neymar has been called for it in both occassions. No problem then calling Dembele for those especially when he is an inferior talent than Neymar for the time being.

 

[Donatello]

Neymar has been called for it in both occassions. No problem then calling Dembele for those especially when he is an inferior talent than Neymar for the time being.

I don't think 21 y.o Dembele is inferior to 21 y.o Neymar. Both have their pros and cons.

Plus, I think Dembele can have a better career than Neymar, considering the trajectory of Neymar's career.

 

[raki]

[tw]1033726034104000513[/tw]

63 balls lost.

It had to come from AS...Neymar lost lot of balls during his tenure and was great. How many balls does Suarez loose?

 

[khaled_a_d]

I don't think 21 y.o Dembele is inferior to 21 y.o Neymar. Both have their pros and cons.

Plus, I think Dembele can have a better career than Neymar, considering the trajectory of Neymar's career.

I didn't compare them at same age, but at the time when they were losing so many balls

 

[ab739]

Because he was statistically one of europe's best dribblers at Rennes and Dortmund? He dribbled at the same rate last season and ended at about 40~ successful dribbles, despite being out for more than half a season. He was one of the best chance creators in Germany and racked up 19 assists in all competitions. People rate his passing and dribbling because they've watched him play, and because data actually supports the claim.


So fucking dumb....

He rates the French league and bundesliga lmao. Dont worry bud you'll see In two years when this guy gets sold to the epl for a massive lost because he couldnt cut it in barcelona.

 

[KingMessi]

He rates the French league and bundesliga lmao. Dont worry bud you'll see In two years when this guy gets sold to the epl for a massive lost because he couldnt cut it in barcelona.

It makes me sad that you have a Villa avatar while being such a troll.