jamrock
Senior Member
How is he moving the goal post? Did i miss something? Lol.
Not even decent and winning a league title definitely doesn't go in the same sentence.
11 - Raphinha
- Thread starter snowy
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How is he moving the goal post? Did i miss something? Lol.
Not even decent and winning a league title definitely doesn't go in the same sentence.
serghei
Senior Member
It is tremendously difficult to win CL, but that Chelsea team had 5-6 incredible players tbh. It's not like he took over some bums and he won CL with them.
2022-23 Barcelona and Simeone's Atletico, especially the 2020-21 side, were the weakest teams to win league titles in Spain in the last 2 decades. The manager's role in achieving those results was very very high.
When Xavi took the team in November 2021, we were a hot mess. We weren't even good enough to qualify from CL groups. Not even good enough to win EL.
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jamrock
Senior Member
It is indeed very challenging.
But you can actually "fluke" your way to a CL title, a few calls go your way and all of a sudden your in the CL final and at that point, anything can happen.
Just ask Madrid they've made a living out of it lol.
Can't fluke your way over a 38 game season.
Anyone who thinks winning 1 CL title shows more quality than 1 league title, doesn't know what they are talking about.
But the person who said that also said a 19 year old neymar at santos was better than a 15-16 year old yamal, because neymar was top 10 in the ballon D'or, because you know that means more than winning the euros lol.
2 CL then we are talking because that shows some level of consistency.
Joan
Well-known member
No one even dares to argue Xavi was a good coach anymore. That’s the definition of moving the goal post.
All we’re seeing these days is “he won the league”. Indeed he did.
jamrock
Senior Member
Because that's how coaches are ultimately judged no? by winning.
That and leaving the club is a better place that you found it.
Both of which he did.
Or in your opinion its by losing pretty? Genuine question.
Joan
Well-known member
Figured what?
Barcelona isn’t City, where Pep takes all the credit and blame, there’s a very involved sporting department that shares responsibility for decisions. Xavi wasn’t ready mentally, tactically, or in terms of experience.
Winning one title doesn’t automatically make him a great coach or the best solution. He wasn’t a disaster, but evaluating him requires looking beyond just those two criteria. And even within those, there are levels.
Pretty has nothing to do with it. Enrique described his team well.
Xavi won a league title but lost most other battles.
Barcelona isn’t City, where Pep takes all the credit and blame, there’s a very involved sporting department that shares responsibility for decisions. Xavi wasn’t ready mentally, tactically, or in terms of experience.
Winning one title doesn’t automatically make him a great coach or the best solution. He wasn’t a disaster, but evaluating him requires looking beyond just those two criteria. And even within those, there are levels.
Pretty has nothing to do with it. Enrique described his team well.
jamrock
Senior Member
I agree with what you're saying regarding they're others involved, but as a coach he's involved in the decision making, like signings.
But the standard for Xavi isn't a great coach, i don't think even is biggest supporters would say he was/is a great coach.
If that's the standard his detractors are judging him by he will always look bad.
He was/is a young/inexperienced coach, that took over the club at a very challenging time and did a good job.
That's all I've ever heard Anyone on here say who supports Xavi TBH, unless I'm missing a few post.
Was he perfect, No.
The quality of the football could have been a better.
He could have done better in Europe in his first 1.5 years.
Was too emotionally involved.
But young coach.
Helps us to finish 2nd,
Wins the league.
Has a equal or winning record against the other top 2 teams in Spain.
I integrated a bunch of young Masia players and signing.
Anyone who says he was a god awful coach is being disingenuous.
Its like this raph situation, flick didn't take a shit bench player and turn him WC.
He took a player that has always been good for us and turn him WC, massive difference.
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Gazzznigga
Active member
Lol......infantile.
There is a reason UCL is considered a tougher and a more prestigious competition not only in Europe but in the world too. it's less about the number of matches but qualitiy of opposition. You can play 18 other bum teams in your national league, you cant escape quality opposition along your path to the UCL year after yesr
There can only be 1 champions league winner in Europe every season(conqueror of all champions), there can be be many national league winners. You cant get through 13/14 matches on pure luck only. It is dumb to think winning 13 matches against national league champions is down to just luck alone. It is even dumber to connote that the national league is not strewn with lucky matches and more refereeing errors that decide those leagues.
Di Matteos historic champions league winner is by far regarded more highly than Xavis league winner except your are permanently deluded and myopic. And If we were to go by achievemente as a coach, Matteo is considered a decent coach. There is no way Xavi can be ranked ahead of him, no matter how you spin it( on coaching success/failure only)
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jamrock
Senior Member
It's more prestigious
Not more difficult
Two different things.
Its a K.O competition dude, the best team doesn't always win.
why am i wasting my time with this guy.
But then again, you do think finishing top 10 in the Ballon D'or matters more than winning the Euros so it follows.
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jamrock
Senior Member
What's more impressive winning the euros at 16 or finishing top 10 in the Golden Bay at 19.?
@Gazzznigga .
@Gazzznigga .
RedxMAK
Well-known member
What many of you fail to realise is that the team itself was still young and unexperienced. You guys always seem to believe that it was all his fault, but what you don't realise is that the team was genuinely unexperienced in Europe and there was nothing else to do, Out of the main 11 that played in the 2022-23 Lliga winning team, only 5 of them played more than 10 UCL games coming in to that season. It's simply unrealistic to expect much in Europe with such a young and relatively unexperienced squad.
serghei
Senior Member
Yeah, it was obvious Xavi took the team in a very bad period for anyone that really wants to see it.
Gazzznigga
Active member
Laughable......indeed, if it was less difficult, the likes of Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real,Juve,Inter,Liverpool, etc, would have more CLs than the number of the national leagues they have won since 1955.
Dude, let it go, Champions league is tougher. Difficulty is not described in numbers but by quality of resistance/challenges.
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serghei
Senior Member
You understand it's way more likely to get lucky in a cup competition than in a league?
When your opponent in the semis and final misses chances left and right, and both can't score even from penalty kicks... that helps a lot in a cup competition. Simple as that. CL is far more dependent on luck.
When your opponent in the semis and final misses chances left and right, and both can't score even from penalty kicks... that helps a lot in a cup competition. Simple as that. CL is far more dependent on luck.
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