6 - Carles Alena

[Yashar1899]

I remember when a young iniesta came in the last 10-15 minutes.. He passed the ball like he had been a senior player since forever .. it put into perspective the monstruous talent of that generation (iniesta-messi-Sergio-even fabregas). We were truly blessed and we didn't even know it.

And i remmeber those times that barca wasn't world's best team! Barca wasn't spain's best team! so grewing youth was easy than todays.
Also i remember Celta-Barca in Balaidos (2003/04) that Iniesta came to the field and was shit!

 

[Zinedinho]

I remember when a young iniesta came in the last 10-15 minutes.. He passed the ball like he had been a senior player since forever .. it put into perspective the monstruous talent of that generation (iniesta-messi-Sergio-even fabregas). We were truly blessed and we didn't even know it.

Iniesta was a sub for a long period of time. In fact, until Deco left and Guardiola became the coach, he was not considered a starter, although he had played plenty of minutes.

Yes, he was already impressive when he used to come on as a sub during the Rijkaard years, even as a DM, but he made his debut even before than that, under Van Gaal. I don't think you remember the first couple of times Iniesta played 10-15 league games, and my guess is that the player you're describing was already given a lot more opportunities than that.

 

[BBZ8800]

Then we remember very differently, because i remember... i don't remember anything from Iniesta of that time at all. He was pretty much as anonymous as any youngster being given dozen of trash minutes late in the game. You guys should stop inventing stories about glorious past.

True.
I actually "hated" Iniesta until around 2005-2006.

Whenever he was coming into a match instead of Xavi or Deco, I used to said to myself: "Oh no, not this kid again who offers nothing whenever he comes in".
He was a disaster.
Not actually a disaster, but he was losing balls like crazy, offering zero impact, and opponents were pushing him as if he is a 8 year old kid etc.

From how I remember, young Xavi was decent from an early age. So, he went from playable to a Goat.
While Iniesta was quite poor in early years and then he exploded after 2006 (aged 22). He went from poor to a Goat.
Iniesta needed way more time to settle in and adjust to a senior football.

 

[Zinedinho]

True.
I actually "hated" Iniesta until around 2005-2006.

Whenever he was coming into a match instead of Xavi or Deco, I used to said to myself: "Oh no, not this kid again who offers nothing whenever he comes in".
He was a disaster.
Not actually a disaster, but he was losing balls like crazy, offering zero impact, and opponents were pushing him as if he is a 8 year old kid etc.

From how I remember, young Xavi was decent from an early age. So, he went from playable to a Goat.
While Iniesta was quite poor in early years and then he exploded after 2006 (aged 22). He went from poor to a Goat.
Iniesta needed way more time to settle in and adjust to a senior football.

Utter rubbish. Even when he was coming as a sub around the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons, the Camp Nou used to cheer him with great enthusiasm whenever he came on as a substitute, game after game. The crowd loved him, because he brought that spark to the midfield. Rijkaard even played him as a DM quite often because of how reliable he already was with the ball.

 

[tacticvarium]

True.
I actually "hated" Iniesta until around 2005-2006.

Whenever he was coming into a match instead of Xavi or Deco, I used to said to myself: "Oh no, not this kid again who offers nothing whenever he comes in".
He was a disaster.
Not actually a disaster, but he was losing balls like crazy, offering zero impact, and opponents were pushing him as if he is a 8 year old kid etc.

From how I remember, young Xavi was decent from an early age. So, he went from playable to a Goat.
While Iniesta was quite poor in early years and then he exploded after 2006 (aged 22). He went from poor to a Goat.
Iniesta needed way more time to settle in and adjust to a senior football.

Wrong. Surely he had some flaws and needed to improve much more however, Iniesta was already a mature player for his age during the first 2 seasons after debut.

 

[jamrock]

Funny how liberated a coach is, when he feels he doesn't have any pressure anymore.

That's why you have to respect those coaches who do it from day 1.

Meh performances by Alena, samper & kamptoum looked when when they got there run out, but it's early days yet.

 

[messi1995]

Iniesta was good that season, but had a lot to improve at. However he became a goat under Guardiola along with Xavi. I think a world class coach with a good system can help you become a goat fast. Sergio busquets needed only two years to become that.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Iniesta was a sub for a long period of time. In fact, until Deco left and Guardiola became the coach, he was not considered a starter, although he had played plenty of minutes.

Yes, he was already impressive when he used to come on as a sub during the Rijkaard years, even as a DM, but he made his debut even before than that, under Van Gaal. I don't think you remember the first couple of times Iniesta played 10-15 league games, and my guess is that the player you're describing was already given a lot more opportunities than that.

Iniesta was more of S.Roberto type of player back in Rijkaard 1st 3 years (impact but not great player who was used in many positions),but he was good in 2006/07 and great in 2007/08. I remember he won many fan votes for Barca player of the year that last season before Pep arrival.He was starter that season although any healthy player would have been a starter that year

Alena is for me the biggest talent we had since Thiago but I think things will come slowly to him,he completed 19 last January and I really don't get people frustration from Lucho not giving him much time. Player of his age are still competing for Juveni A league. Training with 1st team and getting into the squad is already a big step for him specially with such strong team we have and the fact that we have been under pressure all season long.

 

[BBZ8800]

Utter rubbish. Even when he was coming as a sub around the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons, the Camp Nou used to cheer him with great enthusiasm whenever he came on as a substitute, game after game. The crowd loved him, because he brought that spark to the midfield. Rijkaard even played him as a DM quite often because of how reliable he already was with the ball.

Nou Camp is cheering more or less any young player since people are always biased towards the next big thing and a future.
So, people cheering a local young La Masia kid with lots of potential doesn't say too much about his actual abilities in that moment.

Iniesta had tons of potential, and was awesome in youth NT teams who were winning titles, so people were expecting that he will be the next big thing.

This is just my comment that Xavi aged 20 was much closer to "a playable" player than 20-21-years old Iniesta, who had tons of potential, but who had way more to improve in his game (than young Xavi).
In numbers (this is just MY OPINION):
Young Messi was 8/10 or prime Messi.
Young Xavi was 6-7 out of 10 of prime Xavi.
Young Iniesta was 3-4/10 prime Iniesta.

So, out of these 3, young Iniesta and prime Iniesta had the biggest difference between young and prime player.

Wrong. Surely he had some flaws and needed to improve much more however, Iniesta was already a mature player for his age during the first 2 seasons after debut.

I found one match from 2004/05 with a nice resolution:
Real Barca from spring 2005:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x90xi7pwUAE

Valdes - Van Bronckhorst, Puyol, Oleguer, Belletti - Marquez, Xavi, Iniesta (No 24) - Ronaldinho, Etoo, Guily
Deco was unavailable, so young Iniesta had to play.

Please take a look at this match, at least 10-20 minutes.
Iniesta was almost by far the most invisible player on a pitch.
When we have the ball, no one is passing the ball to him. He is not imposing himself, he is not making himself too available (and we he does, again no one passes the ball to him). Also, in defense, he was like current Denis Suarez, like made of air. Opponents were pushing him as if he is a 8 year old kid.

Maybe it's not fair to post El Classico, but still, young Iniesta was nowhere near the older Iniesta.

Xavi, on the other hand (he was somewhat older, 24) was imposing himself here, he tried to control the game, and our players were passing the ball to him.

So, please (other users also) take a look at this match for 10-20-30 minutes when you'll have some free time and tell me why everyone ignored young Iniesta.
Also, look at how weak he was in duels with the opponents back then.
He isn't the strongest player even today, but he improved a lot in attacking and defensive duels.

 

[El Barcelona]

Hope he gets more minutes soon.

 

[Zinedinho]

Iniesta was more of S.Roberto type of player back in Rijkaard 1st 3 years (impact but not great player who was used in many positions),but he was good in 2006/07 and great in 2007/08. I remember he won many fan votes for Barca player of the year that last season before Pep arrival.He was starter that season although any healthy player would have been a starter that year

Alena is for me the biggest talent we had since Thiago but I think things will come slowly to him,he completed 19 last January and I really don't get people frustration from Lucho not giving him much time. Player of his age are still competing for Juveni A league. Training with 1st team and getting into the squad is already a big step for him specially with such strong team we have and the fact that we have been under pressure all season long.

Roughly speaking, Iniesta was our 12th player during those seasons. I accept the premise of him having a role similar to that of Sergi Roberto, but in my opinion he was already a more influential player than Sergi Roberto is while he was three years younger, and, more importantly, there's no need to downplay what he already was achieving at 20, 21 or 22 years old when we had Xavi and Deco to make a point about Aleñá. People are overexaggerating. There was a growing vibe, starting from the 2004-05, where the public began to sense that his presence on the pitch could shake things up in terms of possession and pace of the game. He was already contributing a lot, and his Champions League final against Arsenal when he entered the pitch didn't come off as a surprise to anyone.

As for Aleñá, it's way too early to make any meaningful comparisons and judgments. All players, even Messi, first need to adapt to the feel of the game at top level. And it usually takes some time dealing with it emotionally. I think Aleñá was just overexcited the other day, which is to be expected. It was his first time at Camp Nou in a league game.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Utter rubbish. Even when he was coming as a sub around the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons, the Camp Nou used to cheer him with great enthusiasm whenever he came on as a substitute, game after game. The crowd loved him, because he brought that spark to the midfield. Rijkaard even played him as a DM quite often because of how reliable he already was with the ball.

They cheered him for the same reason they cheer anyone from la masia. And 2005-2006 is way way beyond his debut season, which was 2003 if my memory serves me well. He was good passer like most Barca products, but like BBZ said, he was more of a liability than asset going forward. Trying unwarranted hero dribbles and mostly failing them is the recurring theme of young Iniesta. He wasn't early bloomer at all.

 

[Zinedinho]

They cheered him for the same reason they cheer anyone from la masia. And 2005-2006 is way way beyond his debut season, which was 2003 if my memory serves me well. He was good passer like most Barca products, but like BBZ said, he was more of a liability than asset going forward. Trying unwarranted hero dribbles and mostly failing them is the recurring theme of young Iniesta. He wasn't early bloomer at all.

I'm talking from 2004-05 on. Rijkaard even trusted him as a DM pretty often. DM! No, by then, Iniesta was a very solid player. Iniesta was never about "hero dribbles". Still not the player he became with Guardiola, but not the joke some people are pretending him to be in order to make a further point about Aleñá that, quite frankly, I'm missing. If we're talking about Aleñá's current situation, who remembers Iniesta's first two appearances in league games that added up to not even a half hour and why is it of any significance? Isn't that a bit too early to make any reasonable judgments about any player in the history of the universe?

 

[messi1995]

Iniesta was very influence player I agree with Zinedinho but he was not that player we expected him to be under Guardiola. I still think Aleña can make it because I've watched him play and he has everything a midfielder need. Only weakness is defence and ofc he can struggle when its tight which he can improve at.a

 

[Gnidrologist]

Isn't that a bit too early to make any reasonable judgments about any player in the history of the universe?

It was actually my point as well. Which is why it annoys me, when some people say that Xavi, Iniesta or Puyol or whoever were awesome from the get go and make negative comparisons to current youth. For most part none are.