7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1

[Jombi]

To be frank, mostly due to Mane being (left) out of the squad. But Coutinho shouldn't have problems playing as a left forward.

Since he has played his whole career there, I agree. We didnt buy him based on the 8 games as AM and 6 games as left forward he played in the EPL in the fall before he joined us. We pursued him in the summer.

 

[DonAK]

The team in general lacks direction in attack. A bit like Man Utd under Mourinho, except we have some exceptional individual players who have played together for a long time and able to thrive in spite of a non-functional system.

Even Coutinho did, until it got too much and he lost form.

 

[YodaMaster]

Yeah he played LW in his career but you gotta look at the context. You can't ignore complementarity with other attacking partners.
Who were his partners in attack ? Playing LW at Liverpool with super mobile players such as Firmino and Mané gave Coutinho the wide creator role. A lot of AM can perform that way. Iniesta played a shit ton of matches as LW too. Pastore played on the wing too, James too, Ozil, Eriksen, Mata, etc. That doesn't make them natural wingers.

Problem is that Coutinho can't play LW in any team, or in any system, or with any partners. At Barça, the (wide) creator is Messi. The other guy is slow and old Suarez. There's absolutely zero point in adding Coutinho as the third attacker. Coutinho is as slow as Suarez and wants the ball at his feet in order to deliver the final pass, like Messi. I already talked about it before. Coutinho as LW could work if you partner him with Dembélé on the RW and Malcom as the number 9. Because these 2 fast and energetic players will do the runs and Coutinho will set them up.

When you play Coutinho in attack with Messi, Coutinho is the one who will have to do the runs and he simply sucks at that, he's slow and unexplosive. Add Suarez as striker and we have a soft and limited attack.

When Coutinho plays in the midfield (AM or CM) he delivers a shit load of key passes, adds much more creativity to the team. But in midfield too he has clear weaknesses which are his lack of discipline and lack of defensive contribution.

Now you have to ask yourself: what's easier to learn for Coutinho, discipline and stamina or pace and explosion at age 26 ?
To me the answer is clear as water and he should play CM/AM.

I knew we'd have this problem before he came here. And I knew that the incompetent idiots who run this club (board + Valverde) would have no idea how to solve it. That's why I was against this transfer. Valverde playing him LW the 10 last minutes of our matches since november is absolutely pathetic. He's completely killing the player.

 

[Givenchy]

obviously unrealistic at this point but id love to see something like

----------Busi-Vidal
Dembele-Coutinho-Sancho
------------Messi

you have the GOAT leading the attack, 2 pacey skillfull wingers and Coutinho in prime position for some of his rocket shots + playmaking. Vidal adds steel to the midfield and Busi is Busi

 

[xXKonan]

At this point, something will have to give.

You spend 160 Million euros on Coutinho and he ends up being a bench player who today only got like 10 mins on the field. Dembele has rightfully earned his spot as a starter but the way we are using Coutinho and how Valverde has used him, something is bound to go sour behind the scenes.

 

[LFCfan]

I’ve been lurking on this forum since Suarez left Liverpool. He and Coutinho were my favourite players therefor I kept following them since they left. I find some things I read in this thread absurd.
https://youtu.be/_KQo5nBhIwY
https://youtu.be/r5cro06lTaE

Coutinho mostly played as a midfielder in 13/14. He played as an AM,CM and LM. He was at his best as a CM that season. The performance against Arsenal is imo one of his best performances for Liverpool. He played in a 3 with Gerrard(holding midfielder) and Henderson( box to box) Not only was he giving great passes all game, he was outstanding defensively. He actually bullied Arsenal players( hard to believe I know) and was very aggressive. The video starts with him tackling which already says enough.
After that season he played as a LW till Salah was bought. He was very very inconsistent and frustrating to watch. Doing his disappearance act in a lot of major matches.
When Salah was bought he was playing as a CM again. He was very good and consistent in that position. Making a lot of magic happen. Klopp demands hard and defensive work from every player. Probably the most of any top manager. His teams are notorious for pressing. The fact Klopp thought he was the most important player at the club says a lot. The 2nd video was his last game for the club. He again played as a midfielder, dropped deep very often and played well overall.
He has played as a CM a lot of times and played well. He definitely is capable of playing this position at Barca. As a CM he always had freedom at Liverpool . I haven’t watched Barca a lot this season but this might be the problem. The lack of freedom is hindering his performances. For Liverpool he was never close to his best as a left winger so not surprising he isn’t for Barca as well.
Coutinho certainly as the talent and attitude to make it here. If he won’t it will be because of the fraud EV.

 

[Arizona Scott]

I'm not sure but is Rabiot actually pacey? I also don't think we will be getting De Jong if reports are to be believed (if true we definitely shouldn't). If we have the right players around Coutinho then he would definitely be viable even against high quality opponents.

Compared to Busi and Rakitic yes I think he is on the rangy side (overall athleticism).

I Think the move was definitely Political, everything points to it. He wasn't really a midfielder in the EPL though and there was only one season were he was very good. The previous seasons he was very inconstant. why would someone take that type of risk on something that may not work? It just never made sense to anyone with two eyes and a brain. Apparently Klop thinks the same.

Klopp loved him and played him every time he was fit. The plan was he would be the creator with Mane, Firmino and Salah forwards. If you see Klopp now he now uses Shaqiri at times in this role, to help unlock packed defenses. They also considered Fekir this offseason as a PC replacement but (I think) jumped off this deal realizing they could get Shaqiri for cheap and spring big money for Alisson to address their biggest weakness. PC was feared in the EPL and was terrific for Brazil, solidly their #2 playmaker after Neymar. Klopp fought like hell to keep him and he would be in hide demand if on the for sale list.

list of 80m+ players
Erikson- has a very good work rate...
David Silva- under pep presses and closes down quite well
Mahrez- not great but still does it decently* with city, He is definitely a liability compared to sterling & sane
Dele Ali- presses as all spurs players do.
james- dont know dont really watch him, had the team around him to be able to do that but is currently out of favor
Alonso- He's not the most athletic winger as is definitely a liability in Chelsea's team.
Isco- had the team around him to be able to do that but is currently out of favor

Sorry I meant Asensio, not Alonso. Mahrez fee was 70mil in Euros and his wages are like 13 mil year. Before PC struggles this season he would be seen as more of a sure thing than Mahrez. Granted rumors, but supposedly Real would only take over CR fee money for out of favor Isco. Personally I think Coutinho is better, but I recognize it is more a matter of taste. Eriksen would cost well over 100mil if on a long term contract (and really is Spurs least defensive player, most freedom), I guessing the Koke/Saul 150 buyout clause level. Real payed over 70 mil to Monaco for James and that was 5 years ago, before the market at least doubled.

…Problem is that Coutinho can't play LW in any team, or in any system, or with any partners. At Barça, the (wide) creator is Messi. The other guy is slow and old Suarez. There's absolutely zero point in adding Coutinho as the third attacker. Coutinho is as slow as Suarez and wants the ball at his feet in order to deliver the final pass, like Messi. I already talked about it before. Coutinho as LW could work if you partner him with Dembélé on the RW and Malcom as the number 9. Because these 2 fast and energetic players will do the runs and Coutinho will set them up.

When you play Coutinho in attack with Messi, Coutinho is the one who will have to do the runs and he simply sucks at that, he's slow and unexplosive. Add Suarez as striker and we have a soft and limited attack.

When Coutinho plays in the midfield (AM or CM) he delivers a shit load of key passes, adds much more creativity to the team. But in midfield too he has clear weaknesses which are his lack of discipline and lack of defensive contribution.

Now you have to ask yourself: what's easier to learn for Coutinho, discipline and stamina or pace and explosion at age 26 ?
To me the answer is clear as water and he should play CM/AM.
.

I agree with most of this. I do think Coutinho is a lot less impactful because of Messi. What is yet to be seem is around the right players could it work. Any two of De Bruyne/Mahrez/D Silva played together have a lot of freedom—but the rest of the team work like crazy and they have some great pace on the wings. Liverpool an play with an creative attacking mid and give Salah a lot of freedom. But their other forwards and rest of the team also work like crazy.

 

[CatalinR10]

sell coutinho , buy hazard.

5 cl back to back ez

 

[Arizona Scott]

At this point, something will have to give.

You spend 160 Million euros on Coutinho and he ends up being a bench player who today only got like 10 mins on the field. Dembele has rightfully earned his spot as a starter but the way we are using Coutinho and how Valverde has used him, something is bound to go sour behind the scenes.

Well Pogba was an even more expensive bench warmer (actually not on some team sheets). But I think it is a player/coach confidence thing--not really comparable.

If anything I think Coutinho could be about as good as you get to spell Messi, but Valverde has to sit/sub Messi here and there until it is determined there is some way they both can play together. City and Liverpool at times play with 2 players with high creative freedom in the center of the pitch.

 

[kollegah]

obviously unrealistic at this point but id love to see something like

----------Busi-Vidal
Dembele-Coutinho-Sancho
------------Messi

you have the GOAT leading the attack, 2 pacey skillfull wingers and Coutinho in prime position for some of his rocket shots + playmaking. Vidal adds steel to the midfield and Busi is Busi

People have to understand that Messi needs a real CF in front of him to be at his best.

 

[Jombi]

Well Pogba was an even more expensive bench warmer (actually not on some team sheets). But I think it is a player/coach confidence thing--not really comparable.

Pogba was 105m euros. Cou was 160m.

 

[RIZALDINHO]

he has been a flop so far, he needs to to start playing better. if not maybe we can make a deal with psg to swap him for mbappe

 

[kollegah]

TB:

When people here claimed he was a better fit for us than neymar. Legendary stuff

 

[Alik]

I think it's pretty clear that having him at LW is a bad idea. We need to make him work at midfield and if that doesn't work we need to evaluate our options.

At this point, something will have to give.

You spend 160 Million euros on Coutinho and he ends up being a bench player who today only got like 10 mins on the field. Dembele has rightfully earned his spot as a starter but the way we are using Coutinho and how Valverde has used him, something is bound to go sour behind the scenes.

Even if he is used as a bench option, he could be used better than right now. He shouldn't be replacing the only pacy forward that we have. Either sub him in for Suarez or a midfielder.

 

[Ripsta]

He needs to play Central with Busquets and Arthur. Let him do the Messi job in the middle and allow the three front guys to wreck havoc. Suarez needs replacing sooner or later though.